PACT Regulations for LR

[LCC]

I decided to have a go at making the most broken AC based on this ban list and this is what I came up with:

HEAD : CR-H05XS-EYE3 (0/0/4/6/0)
CORE : CR-C83UA (0/3/0/6/0)
ARMS : YA10-LORIS (0/0/6/4/0)
LEGS : CR-LH96FA (7/0/0/3/0)
BOOSTER : CR-B83TP (0/0/0/10)
GENERATOR : CR-G91 (0/9/1)
RADIATOR : ANANDA (0/0/10)
FCS : MONJU
INSIDE : NONE
EXTENSION : E01MG-ROE
BACK UNIT RIGHT : WB27O-HARPY2
BACK UNIT LEFT : CR-WB73MV
ARM UNIT RIGHT : CR-WR98L
ARM UNIT LEFT : CR-WL69LB
HANGER UNIT RIGHT : NONE
HANGER UNIT LEFT : NONE

OPTIONAL PARTS
O01-ANIMO
CR-O69ES
KISSYOH
CR-O79L+
O03-CODON
O04-GOLGI

Drop the blade as soon as the match begins. Drop the verts or orbits if you're not fast enough relative to your opponent.

WR98L is already top tier without ROE1/2, so adding any extra ammo at all makes it the best weapon in the game, even without other extensions. The design itself is able to hang back, backpedal all day while spamming verts and harpy2's, all while starting out with an early AP lead + a lot of def. If someone gets close, you just back away while spamming highly accurate shots that will have no trouble out damaging the other guy since you'll be dodging and having high def. I can't see any other AC being able to beat this as long as the pilot knows what they're doing, unless the opponent is running something similar or has a super powerful hand combo (RS + Griffon).

[maitreya]

Taking advantage of the stage can work. However, that's dependent on the player's skill. I've seen other possible broken designs based on our rules. So far, we haven't seen anyone enter PACT with such designs, which is probably why we haven't reconsidered changing some rules. If such a design can't be beaten with skill using nonbroken competitive designs, I guess we'll change things. Something like if an AC has TP, it can't have UA or Loris or Lemur2 or etc.

Also, we have a two-AC rule for PACT (in general for AC games). This "forces" the player to distribute the good parts evenly, or as evenly as possible. He can't rely only in one good AC to win the match. Though it is possible to make a competitive design without any of the parts listed in the design above.

[NiX]

Hi LCC. You definitely raise a good point.

We've been aware of the fact that such an AC can indeed be entered into our tournaments, but we opted to allow more variety instead. You see, we wanted to give as much leeway as possible because the AC community here isn't quite as mature and experienced as that in the US. Well thankfully, no one has abused the rules yet. And with the multi-AC system we've implemented, players are pretty much forced to spread out the good available parts.

But like I've been saying for quite some time now, I think our rules are due for a revision.

How about this:

- Only one conditionally banned part may be used per AC. (for example, if you already have TP equipped, you can't use LEMUR2/LORIS/UA/ROE/HP etc)

The addition of that simple rule effectively disallows ACs such as that posted by LCC.

[LCC]

That helps, though I'd still ban Roe1 with WR98L outright. For the most part the change would only slow down the AC a bit as FA still gives the benefit of underweighting speed. With Roe and LB gone it goes at 402. If you choice drop one of the back units you're at 440.

HEAD : CR-H05XS-EYE3 (0/4/0/6/0)
CORE : CR-YC03U4 (0/4/0/6/0)
ARMS : A07-LEMUR (0/7/3/0/0)
LEGS : CR-LH96FA (7/0/0/3/0)
BOOSTER : CR-B83TP (0/0/0/10)
GENERATOR : CR-G91 (0/9/1)
RADIATOR : ANANDA (0/0/10)
FCS : MONJU
INSIDE : NONE
EXTENSION : E01MG-ROE
BACK UNIT RIGHT : CR-WB73MV
BACK UNIT LEFT : WB27O-HARPY2
ARM UNIT RIGHT : CR-WR98L
ARM UNIT LEFT : CR-WL69LB
HANGER UNIT RIGHT : NONE
HANGER UNIT LEFT : NONE

OPTIONAL PARTS
O01-ANIMO
CR-O69ES
KISSYOH
CR-O79L+
O03-CODON
O04-GOLGI
CR-O86R+
MARISHI

[NiX]

Well honestly I'm okay with fighting against an AC like that. I'd consider it cheap to an extent but it's not unbeatable.

Anyways I'll shut up for now. I don't want to make all the decisions here.

[AppleHead]

Well honestly I'm okay with fighting against an AC like that. I'd consider it cheap to an extent but it's not unbeatable.

Anyways I'll shut up for now. I don't want to make all the decisions here.

I agree, mostly because the WR98L does so little damage on heavies and mids that have decent energy def, and that the Harpy EOs are mostly useless against bipeds that aren't heavies. I'm an R92 fan though, so I probably don't feel as much heat as other people do.

In case you're interested in ban lists from other groups, stole this from a thread made just last December on ACO. LCC contributed there too. When are you guys going to hold an SL or AC2AA tourney?

(edit: LOL SL SAWA not banned! )

AC2 Restrictions
- PLOW / H+
- Karasawa
- Pulse Arms & Night = Elena FCS*

AC2AA Restrictions
- PLOW / H+
- Karasawa
- Pulse Arms & Night = Elena FCS*

AC3 Restrictions
- OP-I (Op-Ium / OPIUM)
- CROW
- Hueso with Fleet

AC3SL Restrictions (part breaking nulled)
- OP-I
- MG/800
- SRFL/70
- Extension Solid Shields

ACNX Restrictions
- E2
- MG arms
- Jiren/Saisui
- LHT
- ECMs
- H3
- dual wyrm, single legal
- Harpy2

ACNB Restrictions
- E2
- MG arms
- LHT
- ECMs
- Loris
- H3
- ROE / ROE2
- Harpy2
- BP
- No HP in hangers

ACLR Restrictions
- No hangers on UA
- No HP in hangers
- No Roc2 in hangers
- No Roc4 in hangers
- FA legs only with heavy core/arms
- Loris
- Lemur2
- H3
- TP
- Pegasus
- ECM
- Harpy2
- ROE / ROE2

[LCC]

Harpy2 is meant for free chip damage and herding mostly anyway. If it's up against a heavy it'll provide the extra damage needed. Since harpy2 has boundless ammo you'll probably be constantly moving in one direction, making you very predictable. Spam some of those then follow up with verts for easy damage. The goal really isn't to kill the other guy as much as it is to maintain the AP lead until the match ends.

In all honesty I'd probably run a hover in an LR tourney anyway. I'm sure most of you wouldn't bother with super lame designs unless large sums of money were involved.

And sawa isn't bannable in SL at all, chum.

[NiX]

Yeah thanks Apple.

We've gone through ACO's list before and ours is actually heavily influenced by that. Our goal was to allow just a bit more variety though. But as we can see, such an approach leaves more holes and takes longer to perfect.

Oh and btw, I move for Harpy2 to be added to our list as well for the simple fact that its very existence strips most Tank ACs of any sort of competitiveness.

edit: oh and LCC, yeah after 3 LR tournies with those rules, no one's really brought along anything uber uber abusive. Our respect for each other and the lack of any real material prize does indeed play a part in that too. Well for this tourney, we'll be playing for boxes of Curry mix. That's serious business. =P

[Lord_Leperman]

I'm alright with the HARPY2 being banned in LR. Gives tanks better survivability, and thus less of a hurdle for tank legs to be used in a tourney (Eliminating one part seems to be a fair trade for the potential that a whole range of designs may enter competitively for the sake of greater variety seems fine with me). In addition the users of the HARPY2 won't be affected as much since they can always have the HARPY.

In SL, the MALUM and ELIX were both banned in later Japanese tournaments. The use of the RF220 was also looked down upon, especially in conjunction with the HZL50, in AC3.

If we're gonna have an SL fight recorded, we'll need some live recording equipment, as replays can't be saved in SL . But I'm still up for an SL tourney anytime though .

[NiX]

I'll go ahead and add HARPY2 to our ban list... only so few actually post input here anyway.

[Grim]

As much as I'd like to provide input, right now I'm still reeling from the one week beach vacation in Boracay; my mind's just not in AC just yet.

Nonetheless, even though the recent poll showed results of a no-change policy, I'm supporting further questioning and refinement of the current regulations.

[Sforza]

I'll go ahead and add HARPY2 to our ban list... only so few actually post input here anyway.

I have to say that I have a problem with this, because the poll here clearly shows that more people want to keep the list. I voted for keeping the list, and I'll be offended if someone decides to change it only because few people post their inputs. It's basically a matter of of principle.

If you want to ban only HARPY2s, then please make another thread and poll with that question.

So remove the HARPY2 ban? Most people probably wouldn't use HARPY2s in tournaments against tanks even if they have it in their designs anyway, specially since there's (next to) no prize and we all know that using them would be as Apple says, lame.

[NiX]

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Everyone, please post what you think. I don't want it to seem like only 1, 2 or 3 people are making all the decisions, but that's how things end up most of the time. In any case, polls will be made.

[Grim]

So... Jake wants to keep the current ban list as per the finished poll, which does state that people want to keep the bans as they are.

Nix and others including me want to change some things around in order to allow more variety and freedom in creating builds.

In the interest of being fair, let me rephrase my earlier post which may have been misunderstood - keep the current bans as they are for PACT IV, but let's keep on discussing possible changes for future PACTs. Is everyone alright with this?

Personally though, I think there's only just a little more tweaking we can do with the current rules before they get too confusing for their own good.

[NiX]

Well PACT 4 is coming up in less than 2 weeks... that's not much time. If ever some changes are agreed upon, it seems reasonable for me to just implement the changes for tournaments after PACT 4, like Grim said.