LR: Two-on-Two Discussion

[NiX]

No burgers for anyone using UA, Lemur, and FA?

[Mjting]

LOL

lemur and TP )

[Fox]

Premonitions of days to come.
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Finally found this vid.

This was Fox and Clonezero vs Doc and Serene -hindi ako yun si nereSe ako-.
Kings die honorable deaths.

Maraming salamat kay Rick for uploading this vid.

Rick, di pala 10 minutes yung laban laki ng mali ko. Nagmukha lang matagal kasi dalawa kumakarne sa kin. Plus, the slowmo from way many missiles.

Damn, i remember this fight fondly. That last part was really tricky since i'm not really all that handy with a blade.

[Moonlight_Raven]

No burgers for anyone using UA, Lemur, and FA?

hehehe... i don't really have & like the "feel" to use the UA, LEMUR2 & FA


=^.^=

[Serene]

Premonitions of days to come.
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Finally found this vid.

This was Fox and Clonezero vs Doc and Serene -hindi ako yun si nereSe ako-.
Kings die honorable deaths.

Maraming salamat kay Rick for uploading this vid.

Rick, di pala 10 minutes yung laban laki ng mali ko. Nagmukha lang matagal kasi dalawa kumakarne sa kin. Plus, the slowmo from way many missiles.

Damn, i remember this fight fondly. That last part was really tricky since i'm not really all that handy with a blade.

Maswerte ka naipit ako. Ahaha.; Per mas mahaba din and iyo [blade] kaya luge din sa range.

Ha. Lemur2 gamit ko hindi Lemur lang. I has burjers~!

[Lord_Leperman]

Don't be GAY! Don't use the ETTIN on someone and don't hide behind a FUTEN!

[Serene]

Asteeg.
And don't be a chicken flapping bazooka arms.

[NiX]

Andaming nag FA.

But an Eye3-UA-Lemur-FA-BP-BP AC actually wasn't as badong as I thought it would be for a 2-on-2. Even a pair of these badongs wasn't that badong.

Lots of new things learned. Lots more to talk about. But let's do that later... after sleeping.

Weapons of the tournament:
LX and HARPY

[maitreya]

LX was the weapon of the day! It works well, especially if you don't see it coming, Doc's match in the Abandoned Factory was a perfect example of how LX works as an excellent support artillery.

[Mjting]

HARPY!!!!!! NEXT TARGET?!??!!

[NiX]

Just to compare our speculations to what exactly happened:

...By far I've seen this mostly as two-1-on-1 matches happening at the same time...

I don't think it ever happened that we had 2 simultaneous 1-on-1s happening at the same time, right?

This isn't to say that I think that splitting up your opponents isn't a viable strategy. It's probably just a strategy that wasn't fully explored during the tourney.

...the typical scenario would be each participant just brings their best AC and tries to make the most out of it as well as their partner with the occasional gang-up-on-one-guy happening...

Indeed, some players just used their usual best ACs while other teams actually tried to make or choose complementary ACs. I think the results showed that the more coordinated teams really did better.

I think we also saw that ganging up on one guy was a top-tier strategy.

...For tactics, I think missiles will play a bigger role as support weapons in conjunction with longer ranged FCS'...

Missiles played a role, of course. But the ones that seemed most effective were the single-lock multi-missile systems like the micro missiles, MT, and 69M and SATYROS combined with missile extensions. Verts didn’t do too well simply because of their killing rate. Too bad nobody experimented with large missiles. I still think they’re viable.

Blades may come into play more effectively given the the distraction opportunities presented by one's partner on an opponent, therefore making blades a more viable opportunity weapon than on a regular 1-on-1 game.

Come to think of it, blades may still have a chance. I don’t wanna be the one to test it on the field though.

Also, a coordinated 2 player team will play much differently than 2 players w/o complementary designs, and I think deserves a totally different discussion.

Truly.

I for one am thinking more of Focus Fire tactics have 2 designs equipped with quick kill weapons + back ups focus on knocking one of (preferably the one with lighter armor) leaving room to breathe ... but yeah it works both ways XD

This is almost the exact strategy that Goat and I used pretty much throughout the tournament.

if your paired with a uber heavy tank like Obsidian Rock or Apocalypse any light or mid class ac can act like the mobile guard taking pot shots when the enemies are trying to back away from the slow tank or when they try to circle around to the back.

This is how it went for Doc and Rick paired with their heavy tank partners. For Rick, a lightweight like Himitsu Heiki might have been more complementary to Apocalypse though.


Prior to the tournament, I thought that the important AC attributes for a 2-on-2 were defense, stability, and firepower. I considered armor important because I thought that, “hey, I’m gonna get hit anyway.” But things turned out pretty differently in the tournament itself. Here’re some of my other thoughts on 2-on-2:

1. Speed and mobility are really important. Speed allows one to quickly reinforce his or her teammate and can be used simply to stay out of the box of both opponents. It works for easy positioning and escaping too.

Fast+fast AC = good. Fast+Slow AC = still good. Slow+Slow = BAD. It's really easy to isolate 2 slow ACs from each other.

2. Heat was another unexpected variable that played a major role in the tournament. Under heavy fire, ACs with substandard cooling systems roasted and got forced into genbusting.

3. Double harpies simply MELT non-OB heavy tanks. There is no defense.

4. LX is a game-changer. With the proper support, LX becomes truly formidable.

5. Rapid-fire, high DPS weapons seem to be more effective than the high-precision timing-based weapons that are favored for 1-on-1.

6. Lag is a MAJOR factor. 2 PS2s simply have a hard time handling a 4-AC gangbang. The lag can get in the way of double-locks, boost-hopping, and timing shots. Lag caused me quite a few hard-lands and missed cannon shots.

[clonezero]

we can just interpret lag as part of the battle when the world slows down in the heat of battle which is when your adrenaline kicks in.

with the double the number of enemies around would the yasya and the floating mines be of better effect?

sorta used as a way to deny access to an area or more simply to irritate enemies, I think the mines that have a longer duration would be better for this.

hmm rockets maybe a good thing to use when a team sticks close together but yeah it still a gamble XX

finally I think mid class ACs are best for 2 on 2 with light weights being close second but yeah like Rick said team work is oh so essential XD

[NiX]

Supposedly, the slowed perception of time helps us react better in times of danger. Unfortunately, it's just not like that in LR. When you press the button to fire, let's say, LX while it's lagging, it takes 2 seconds for that input to register. And sometimes, that 2 seconds is enough for you to lose your double lock and miss your shot that would have most probably hit.

[clonezero]

simple lets call it cluster f@ck fatigue

[Serene]

Nix, Don't forget about the AC color. Most maps have shades of yellow, black, gray and afew dark shades.
Camouflage is a deciding factor in some ways too. Having to deal with 2 AC's at once, it's not very easy to have them both in the lock box.
Basically, you can't easily lock on to something that's difficult to see.

The strategy CZ and I used is a simple design based attack: The classic 'Kaliwa ka, Kanan ako' approach.
And it was difficult because we don't really have a fixed target and with the 'UNAHIN NYO YUNG PINK!!!' strategy marked on our team, It was more difficult because CZ's core isn't as armored as mine. The Spartoi's double lock feature did good for me because it let the wide 8 missile swarm divide among targets.

I think the Fugen FCS will be a little more useable now as well because missiles will be easier to use due to the quick lock on. Isolating lockons will be easier because of the vertical lock, well, at least a little better than small square boxes. Because flying won't save them much.

Speed and Aggression are the ultimate factors in 2v2. Too bad, my controls don't let me use dual rifles/machineguns...

In Ratings:
Very Fast ***
Fast **
Slow *

So:
Very Fast + Very Fast
******
Very Fast + Fast
*****
Very Fast + Slow
****
Fast + Fast
****
Fast + Slow
***
Slow + Slow
**

The PACT5 proved a few theoris lalo na 'tong mga to.
http://ravenrepublic.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=307

AC to Chess Analogy: Revision 2

BISHOP
Chassis: Quad, Reverse Joint
Staple Weapon: Sniper Rifles
Weight Class: Light to Mid
Aggressiveness: Aggressive to Very Aggressive
Style: Lock-on and Seek Out
Description:
- Bishops are noted for their accuracy and are quite difficult to run away and hide from.
- Queen-side Bishops are the most difficult to handle as opponents because of the Queen's very high aggressiveness combined with the Bishop's near inescapable lock box.
- The title 'Bishop' is applicable to people who are good seekers.

KNIGHT
Chassis: Quad, OB Quad, OB Tank
Staple Weapon: Back Cannon (Grenade Launcher, Linear Gun, Railgun, Laser Cannon, Hi Laser Cannon, Plasma Cannon)
Weight Class: Light Mid to Heavy
Aggressiveness: Normal to Aggressive
Style: Joust, Peek-a-Boo
Description:
- Knights are known for their good timing and use of obstacles for both attacking and defending.
- King-side Knights are good for melee combat because of the King's attack style (stun and blade) and the leg set's blade thrusting style.
- The title 'Knight' is applicable to people who are quick to respond in sudden changes during battle and are good tacticians.

ROOK
Chassis: EO Tank, Hangered Tank
Staple Weapon: Bazooka, Hi-Laser Rifle, Plasma Rifle, Back Cannon
Weight Class: Mid to Heavy
Aggressiveness: Aggressive
Style: Head-On, Stun and Shoot
Description:
- Rooks are designed to absorb and deal massive damage. They may equip shields to make up for the massive mobility loss.
- Queen-side Rooks are good for outlasting opponents while chipping away their AP, while King-side Rooks are good alternatives for King-side Knights, but is less effective.
- The title 'Rook' is applicable to people who prefer defense aligned and AP rich builds.

KING
Chassis: OB Frame
Staple Weapon: Bazooka, Rocket, Laser Blade (Hangered)
Weight Class: Light to Heavy
Aggressiveness: Normal to Aggressive
Style: Stun and Blade, Poke-of-Doom
Description:
- Kings are built for close combat and utilizes blades and high stun weapons.
- The prefix 'King-side' applies to an AC with a hangered laser blade.
- The title 'King' is applicable to players who are good at using blades.

QUEEN
Chassis: EO FRame, Hangered Frame
Staple Weapon: Assault Rifles, Machineguns, Dual Handguns (Hangered)
Weight Class: Ultralight to Mid
Aggressiveness: Extreme
Style: Spam
Description:
- Queens are built for speed and for lashing opponents with quick firing weapons like machineguns and handguns.
- The prefix 'Queen-side' applies to an AC having dual hangered handguns
- The title 'Queen' is applicable to people who prefer speed and attack speed over power.

1. Two Queens are lethal. Proven
2. Two Rooks are lethal. The two rooks died. Proven
3. A King with any other class is not very dangerous. Proven