PACT Regulations for LR

[maitreya]

Maybe we can have a tournament in which we'll only use the banned maps.

Oh man, that should be a riot.

Tanks and Hovers in Floating Arena =D

[NiX]

Hey guys! Rick and I were talking about the possibility of lifting our bans altogether (except for ECM pods, which really makes things unfair for those using the type b control scheme)

I suggested that our current ban list can simply become a gentleman's agreement rather than a strictly enforced law. I proposed this because I feel that RR is already mature enough to look beyond just "top tier".

Kumbaga, our current ban list will be reduced to a list of parts we consider CHEAP nalang. And if your conscience can handle using a cheap AC, then by all means, go ahead and use it.

Advantages:

- eliminates the need to regulate AC entries -> saves time
- makes our tournaments a little less intimidating to potential newcomers
- more design freedom -> more fun (?)
- breeds an "it's not all about winning" environment

Disadvantages:

- broken designs being entered into our tournaments. duh.


What do you think, RR?

[maitreya]

IIRC, Japanese tourneys allow cheap parts? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Anyway, lifting the bans will allow broken designs into the tourney as you said. But because of the multiple AC format (no parts repitition), I think we'll just see more varieties in designs - players won't be bringing in two or more completely "broken" or cheap ACs since there won't be enough parts to support those designs.

I'm for lifting the bans on most parts. But as of now, is there any part combo that is completely unfair aside from the ECM (with type A controls)?

And how about the H3 handguns? Dual H3s and HPs on quads or tanks with OB jousting and all sounds freaky. Or left HP plus right H3 then switch to left hangared H3 then right hangared HP on LWs with back weapon support = part breaker + stun + heater (I can just imagine what this can do to RJs and tanks w/o OB). I dunno if the H3 can be considered legal even with the part ban lifted. But if we do lift the bans, then we can probably have a partial ban on the H3? Something like the handgun can only be used as a primary weapon, and that only one of it can be brought.

And lastly, how about completely taking out bans for hovers? Under the currect regulations, that could probably put hovers on the same level as other AC combinations given that the players' skills are equally matched. But it could probably outmatch other leg types (tanks for one; hovers with the linear gun weapon arm + ECM + type A may be too broken). So I'm still unsure to this. But I'll open this up anyway since we're talking about lifting part bans.

[Grim]

I think lifting the strict bans and putting up a gentleman's consensus on parts instead is a step in the right direction, for all the reasons already outlined.

The combinations Tim mentioned are indeed scary though. Dual H3s on a light? ECM pods on a hover? These are game-breaking ACs which might kill all the fun we're trying to foster - because it's not fun to lose in the first 30 seconds of a fight because you got locked down by heat; because it's not fun to be unable to shoot back at your opponent while he's raining down destruction on you; because it's not fun to not even have a fighting chance - the pitfalls are numerous. However, because there's that element of some part combinations being broken beyond measure I do think we'll all steer clear of that. At least I hope so. We've already gone through 3 PACTs, most of us already know what can be understood as cheap: our present rules are full of them.

I'm just worried that the new blood (if they enter) won't be as knowledgeable in the nuances of (top) tiered parts though. They might go into the tournament with a win-at-all-costs attitude, and brandish in our faces an AC equipped accordingly. From my experience people coming from solely fighting the AI already know what parts are good (Lemur2, Dingo2, TP, etc, etc), but rarely have an inkling of the notion of cheapness. So what's to stop them from disregarding our gentleman's agreement?

But hey, if someone wins the PACT with a broken AC, we'll call him on that haha. If he doesn't, then he gets praise. Personally, I think the fear of being branded as an el-cheapo is enough for most of the older members because we all meet personally. The new guys might not take it as much in stride though.

Basically, that's just a caveat to the whole idea, but I'm actually for it.

[NiX]

Well of course we'll still show the list of cheap parts to our new comers. But if they don't want to comply, then I have no problem with that.

Besides, if someone does win a PACT with a broken AC, no one's really gonna give that much credit. =P

Broken ACs may give a huge advantage to some players, but I feel that they're still very much beatable especially if the pilot isn't that experienced.

What do the other members think? We need your opinion on this

[Lord_Leperman]

If explained well, they'll be able to understand the reasons for some restrictions in a competition based environment. If one day they come to realize that whatever wins they had was due to their parts and not through skill, they'd immediately be insulted to find out that the top players in the competition were holding back because of a gentleman's ban.

So, I say that we keep the regulations anyway. If you make it, they will go and abide with the rules we've set for us and themselves. It is a hurdle they'll have to get past if they really want to participate in a tournament. Let's keep PACT a competition where we pride ourselves in fair play. We can always have fun in our non PACT meets and go crazy in them anyway :p

Don't worry about explaining them, I'll be the one to tell them the reasons for such regulations when we meet them in person before the tournament. :p

[AppleHead]

Because I don't understand Filipino, here's a log. I removed most of the Filipino phrases I don't understand. I think they were just side comments on unrelated topics anyway.

[AppleHead] 4:56 am: I don't care what you think outside of the tournament. we can be friends! married! one night
standees!
[AppleHead] 4:56 am: but I will kick your ass in the tournament
[AppleHead] 4:56 am: that's what I think XD

[Goatling] 4:56 am: I don't wanna get pwnd
[Goatling] 4:57 am: but yes, gaming is serious business
[Serene] 4:57 am: Same here goat
[Serene] 4:57 am: It shows how serious people are when they're serious
[Goatling] 4:58 am: yes
[Goatling] 4:58 am: -_-

[AppleHead] 4:58 am: specially in a game with competition as an element
[Serene] 4:58 am: Well
[Serene] 4:58 am: PACT is for Philippine Armored Core Tournament

[AppleHead] 4:58 am: if you allow the previously banned parts, it'll cause trouble in the future.
[Lord_Leperman] 4:58 am: Well, we're the closest ther will be to an AC league in the Philippines

[AppleHead] 4:59 am: the bottom line is still who the champion is
[AppleHead] 4:59 am: not how he got there
[AppleHead] 4:59 am: or she.
[AppleHead] 4:59 am: im for haywire
[Serene] 4:59 am: I guess habang wala pang prize besides the bragging rights we should practice how to really
treat it like a tourney

[Lord_Leperman] 4:59 am: Don't worry, I'll explain it to the them when we meet on Saturday
[Lord_Leperman] 5:00 am: The point was to get more players into the mix by reducing restrictions to enter.
[Lord_Leperman] 5:00 am: But if you make it, they will join anyway.
[Serene] 5:01 am: Katulad ng sabi ko, mag-adjust sila
[Lord_Leperman] 5:01 am: So I'm for the bans as of early this morning

[AppleHead] 5:01 am: it would be worth it to restrict their entry then
[Goatling] 5:01 am: desperado naman sila maglaro ng AC e, just make sure they won't get discouraged. They're
kids! XD

[AppleHead] 5:01 am: as I said you'll make the group look like whores
[AppleHead] 5:01 am: and original members unhappy
[AppleHead] 5:01 am: if they lose
[AppleHead] 5:01 am: even if they won't tell you
[AppleHead] 5:02 am: just because you can overcome banned parts doesnt mean everybody can

[NiX]

If the majority prefers to keep the bans, I'm okay with that too. And with that, at least no one has to worry about going against EYE3/UA/LORIS/COUGAR2/LIMPET/LOTUS/TP/ANANDA/H3/H3/HP/HP/PEGASUS designs.

Conditional Parts:
LORIS and LEMUR2 arms -
(2)if a left arm gun is equipped, only a Parry blade or flamethrower may be equipped on the right arm, or no right-arm weapon at all. NO hangered guns for the right arm.

I thought of a small loophole here though.

What if an AC, without a right arm weapon, utilizes a back mount (cannon, missile, rocket, etc) as its main weapon while simultaneously using its left arm weapon too?

Is that any different from dual gunning?

Personally, this doesn't really bother me much. But I just thought it was something worth bringing up.

[AEA1]

What if an AC, without a right arm weapon, utilizes a back mount (cannon, missile, rocket, etc) as its main weapon while simultaneously using its left arm weapon too?

I guess... it's the basic premise the 1st mode of my dual face AC (shameless plug)
picture would be appreciated... (kung mayroong mabait na magdadagdag :p)

Name: Itak

EYE3 - 50 solid defense, 50 energy defense
UL2 - 50 solid defense, 50 energy defense
A72F - 50 weight, 50 energy defense
cougar2 - 100 max leg weight

Internal and motive parts
GULL - 100 booster heat
MONJU
G91 - 100 energy output
ANANDA - 100 cooling

Weapons
RM3
NYMPHE
MV2
RS
KRSW
69H
69H

Optionals
AMINO
ES
SS
79L+
GOLGI
HISTON
PHAGE
RIBOSE

[Lord_Leperman]

Lets do it like this. Let's remove the restrictions on the LEMUR2 and LORIS, and allow them to be freely chosen. Let's NOT have a declaration of a gentleman's ban, as I don't think it is necessary at all.

Its up to you to choose if you wish to equip those parts, and follow the principles you've set for yourself when it comes to how you play the game. Go right ahead if you want to put LEMUR2 arms with the ICURUS core (arguably the poorest performing core part) or the UA core (arguably the best performing core part), you follow your style of play and stick to what you believe in, whether it be honor, power, or whatever works.

It's your design, and it will reflect on what kind of person you are when it comes to playing AC. However, I'm still for banning ECMs and TPs outright as they seem to break gameplay balance (while the LEMUR and LORIS simply break design balance).

I can't really make up my mind for some reason and I seem to be transferring from one side to another. I apologize if I'm a bit inconsistent with my views. I might as well discuss it with some of you guys IRL when we meet on Saturday.

Venue issues: Sforzando's place at the moment. However, if Goat's investigation into the PS2 shop in GH goes well (if there are enough units, and if the place can be rent out for a day) then we'll see about our options.

[NiX]

Random thought namin ni Maitreya just now:

How about we ban Eye3?

[Grim]

Huh???

[NiX]

It's not exactly broken, but it certainly makes many other heads look useless. Yun nga random thought lang naman we don't have to make a big deal of it. XD

[Sforza]

It's not exactly broken, but it certainly makes many other heads look useless. Yun nga random thought lang naman we don't have to make a big deal of it. XD

Let's ban Lotus, Ananda and F73H instead XD

[NiX]

LOL that ought to freeze hell over if we do ban the likes of Eye3, LOTUS, F73H, Ananda. XD

Anyways, yeah it was just a thought.