PACT Regulations for LR

[NiX]

Quite frankly, all that I'm against is Minisawa + ROE2. I'm not even sure if ROE should be allowed with it.

However, as for ROE/ROE2 with any other laser rifle, I don't really mind... combining ROE/2 with SHADE, SHADE2, DRAGON, or HOLLOW doesn't seem too abusable... the advantages don't seem too overpowering.

How about for now, we allow the ROE/ROE2 for all laser rifles except 98L. If someone does come up with some kind of abuse for them in our next event, that's when we'll decide.

[Lord_Leperman]

great idea, but better if tested in freeplay than in an actual tournament

[NiX]

Well yeah that's why I said "event" instead of "tournament."

But yeah... someone start enumerating some potentially abusive designs with the ROE so we can commence with testing.

[Lord_Leperman]

Well, we've settled the ROE2 issue. What about the ROE itself, should it be paired up with the 98L? Personally I think its alright in contrast to the ROE2. It just kinda feels 'alright' with the 98L...

[Grim]

Well now that you've spoken your arguments against the Mini-Sawa + ROE2, you've also opened my eyes to possible issues with the ROE.

Almost half the weight and drain of the ROE2, therefore not that heavy and drainy, single use... extends the life of that gun by 30%, adding another 12 rounds of almost sure 597 energy damage... I think it's pretty borderline with the 98L. Almost like missile extensions, like you said before, but for the 98L, where they're almost sure to hit.

I dunno, I'm on the fence on this one. On one hand, the increase isn't that great, and ROE takes up an extension slot, which could be used for extension missiles. On the other hand, err... I'm just repeating myself.

EDIT: Actually, I'm on more of the side of allowing them too now. Seems OK.

[NiX]

I'm against the ROE. If we're to ban the ROE2, why not the ROE?

It's half the weight, the drain, and the ammo of the ROE2... therefore, how is it any different from the ROE2? Because of its lower weight, it just becomes more equipable. It's just as effective.

[Lord_Leperman]

Well, it doesn't give an extra 66% ammo to the 98L. I thought of the ROE + 98L by comparing it with the RS.

The RS has 26208 kill power while weighing at just under 600WP. The 98L has 21492 EN attack power by itself and weighing just a bit over 600WP. Now if we add the ROE it becomes 740WP and has a total of 28656 kill power and an added EN drain of around 200 points. The difference of 125 WP for an extra 2000+++ damage potential seems fair enough for me. Not to mention that the RS has an instant ping time and a shot velocity at least 100 points higher than the 98L, has just around 100 equip drain, and does not drain per shot.

The ROE2 on the otherhand gives a bit too much for the 98L, increasing its total EN kill power to around 35000+++, which is enough to kill any AC when all shots land (Its not likely that'll happen, but with supporting weapons in the mix, it does help destroy the other AC much faster). Come to think of it, for almost 860WP the 98L + ROE2 isn't so bad as a primary weapon... Maybe allow bladers to use it?

EDIT: Now that I've compared the 98L to the RS, adding the ROE2 on the 98L doesn't seem so much of a broken idea as it used to IMO.

[NiX]

True that the ROE gives the 98L a total weight of 740. However, after 12 shots or even earlier, you can reap the benefits of ROE and drop it right away, thereby giving you around a 140 less weight and 200 less drain.

Sure the killpower of the 98L is less than the RS but most ACs have less energy defense anyway.

As for having 98L+ROE2 on bladers, I'm still against it. LORIS/LEMUR2/TP/98L+ROE2... an AC like that practically has all the banned parts... haha (though yes, the TP in this case would rob energy from the 98L)

Here's a compromise that seems reasonable to me:

If an AC has 98L + ROE, the ROE should not be dropped even if it has been used up. Dropping the ROE after using it should result in a disqualification. How's that?

[Lord_Leperman]

Instant disqualification seems too much. Also, I think of the ROE as an RM relation missile set for Laser Rifles. The analogy is almost pretty similar: spam and drop, much like the RM or you can save it later for when one needs the ammo most. Some of my arguments for the ROE2 also apply, like not being able to use relation missiles in favor of some ammo, which I think is an exercise of fair choice between relation missiles and (some) extra ammo.

[Grim]

I'm pretty OK with ROE on the Mini-Sawa. ROE takes up extension slots, which let's face it most people use for missiles anyway. For taking up the space of what makes missiles more effective at the cost of 12 more shots, it isn't too bad a compromise. But we still have yet to see if there is a design out there that can abuse this to oblivion. Let's keep the discussion on that open just in case.

I'm against the ROE2 + 98L on bladers though. Bladers can still find other weapons that will keep them competitive without having the above combination on their side, like the RS or RL.

And disqualifying people based on actions once inside a battle? I'm against that too.

[NiX]

LOL ok maybe not instant disqualification. But I still say that ROE shouldn't be dropped if used with 98L. 98L isn't a missile pack, after all.

We've got to test this some time soon guys. (bahay ko, Saturday! )

[Grim]

<!--QuoteBegin-NiX+Nov 19 2006, 08:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NiX @ Nov 19 2006, 08:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> We've got to test this some time soon guys. (bahay ko, Saturday! ) [/quote:4fd7978b89]
Arr... those be fightin' words, matey! Arr! )

I'll see.

[NiX]

If not my house, then Rick's house!!! (LOL sorry for volunteering someone else's house. )

[Lord_Leperman]

If its my house, then its cool. If its Nix's house, its pretty far.... someone will have to take me there and bring me back )

[NiX]

If it's a saturday, it'll only take you around 25 minutes to get to alabang town center... then I can pick you up from there. But yeah if it were my place, it'd be really far for Mix.

So... yeah let's do it in your house then. Set a Saturday aside, folks.