FA Discussion

[NiX]

I have played AC4. I don't like it. Maybe if it wasn't called AC4.

And the stuff I mentioned above, STORY, SINGLE-PLAYER, PLAYABILITY, BALANCE, CONTROLS, these are things that have plagued AC since the very beginning. It's not just AC4. It's every single game in the series that have these problems.

[R.Leonhardt]

so would you kindly share them?

[Sforza]

My thoughts on this sequel:

1. What kind of stupid name is "for answers"? I really hope this isn't going to be the official title.

Imagine if their was "Final Fantasy X-for Answers" or "Mega Man X-for Answers" or "Super Mario for Answers"

2. There already was a Co-op mode in AC, just that it was confined to VS mode. Besides, missions in AC are a lot like Dynasty Warriors missions. They don't even come close to Mechwarrior missions most of the time. I don't think Co-op will make them more exciting.

3. Why the hell would I need to transform to become faster/get more armor, etc. when I already have near infinite boost (ugh)? If a heavy could become a light and vice-versa, it just adds balance issues to an unbalanced game. Same argument with new parts.

4. As a gamer, I wouldn't really value "answers" to a story as much as a real 7th gen AC game. I don't want to play Virtual On or Gundam Seed pretending to be AC.

5. Since when has huge bosses become a feature?

so would you kindly share them?

That was not funny.

[R.Leonhardt]

lol,I think you've mistaken me Sforzando,I wasn't joking,I'm asking if he could post his problems

[NiX]

I already said the problems. Twice, in fact.

[Sforza]

lol,I think you've mistaken me Sforzando,I wasn't joking,I'm asking if he could post his problems

Oh, sorry. I thought you were being witty.

[R.Leonhardt]

No,I mean what about STORY, SINGLE-PLAYER, PLAYABILITY, BALANCE, CONTROLS?what do you hate bout them??

[NiX]

Story

- There has never been any actual plot. We're always only give a backstory (i.e. Great destruction, mars colonization, etc) rather than a good story. Heck, you wouldn't even know about the backstories if you don't read the manual/art books. There has never been an ACTUAL story in any AC game ever.


Single Player Campaign

- Make it cohesive. Make things more personal! Players wanna see pilots. We want MEMORABLE CHARACTERS. Not just their ACs. Players want INTERACTION. Conversations through e-mail and while inside your mechs are just so impersonal. AC needs more than just variations of KILL ALL TARGETS.

Design missions so that they are progressive in difficulty. And by progressive difficulty, I don't simply mean adding more targets/bigger baddies -_-. Make the missions purposive - force players into very specific types of designs for each mission so that they can learn proper AC designing.

etc etc etc


Playability

- ALL good/successful games are easy to pick up but difficult to master. In the case of AC, it's difficult to pick up and even more difficult to master.
- For starters, FROM should AT LEAST tell players right from the beginning SPECIFICALLY what each stat does (recoil control, calorific value, blade aptitude, etc etc). With how they present things, they make players try to find out on their own. Stupid.

etc etc.


Balance

- Is this so hard to understand? There's a reason why so many designs look alike. It's because there are only so few good parts while other parts are just plain bad. FROM gets a chance to make fixes whenever they release expansions... but instead of simply fixing things, they usually end up adding even more broken/useless parts.


Controls

- We need a control scheme that doesn't take weeks(months? maybe even years) to master.

----

Did I really need to explain each of AC's problems? I would have thought that AC's PROBLEMS were as clear as day.

Yes, I love AC. But I'm not blind to its shortcomings... and it has A LOT of shortcomings.

[Lord_Leperman]

Know what, just play the 1st AC games and work your way up to what you have. Its gonna be easy for you since you already have the option to play further installments. But imagine playing AC2 till LR for the very least, one year for each game, hoping for improvements each time and sticking to it even if it did fail us at times, its still the game we know and love. For us who have waited for "The AC game", we were all just met with unfulfilled expectations and have become jaded to new features implemented to "improve the game" but we still played because it still had that feeling that its still AC. AC4 changed that, the ACs there don't feel like the ones we knew and loved.

For an analogy, let me start by saying that I am a long time Gundam fan, and I liked the Universal Century series. Then they started making the Alternate Universes. While the Alternate Universes still carried the Gundam name, it didn't really feel like the Gundam series that we knew and loved (Compare and contrast the Universal Series and Mobile Fighter G-Gundam, Turn-A-Gundam, and Gundam SEED, for example). The newer series was more flashy, and had multiple invincible Gundams (A no-no in the Universal Century Series, with the exception of Victory Gundam perhaps). The Gundam's pilots were all androgynous pretty-boys (The trend started with Wing and continues till today), and they also downplayed the role of mass produced weaponry in order to further the image of the Gundam as an invincible fighting machine. The Alternate Universe series was catered to a newer, younger generation, and thus the old population who grew up with the older series still remained loyal to what they loved, as the new Gundam series' were nothing like what they once knew.

Here's the big difference between Gundam and AC. The Gundam series didn't alienate its older fans, but instead continued to nurture the older generation by continuing to produce various media that cater to Universal Century enthusiasts (The Zeta movie trilogy, MSIGLOO CG movies, and the Gundam Unicorn novels, just to name a few and all of which were still based in the continuity of the Universal Century). At the same time, the producers created new media that's targeted for newer and younger audiences (The Alternate Universe series'). Both universes cater to different people, and everyone's happy because they got what they wanted in their perception of the perfect Gundam Series.

While AC4 might be good, for the people who grew up with the older games the love simply isn't there. AC has become far too different from the AC that we knew and loved. That's why people here tell you that AC4 is ZOE/Gundam SEED game that's masquerading as an Armored Core title. I will not go to specifics to as to what has changes as they are too many to mention, but they are easily felt by those who have played the older generation of AC games. The best suggestion I can offer is for you to try and spend some time with the older games in the hopes that you'll understand the situation.

That's perhaps why some of us still go back to the older generation AC games. Heck, Nix will tell you that his favorite AC game was SL despite playing LR extensively. Serene will tell you that playing MOA were good times. All of these, despite being different titles, were similar enough for people to transcend to each other title easily, which is why we all play LR. While we still might play AC4, but we're gonna play it as is, and don't expect people to play it with the dedication that they had for the older titles.

[NiX]

Fuck AC, oh AC.

You're like the beloved son that ALWAYS fails to live up to a father's expectations.

[R.Leonhardt]

don't get me wrong,I just want to know what's on your mind. And btw,I've played the older games and AC3 and SL were my favorite. You guys really hate AC4 lol,I'm only playing it for the fact that it offers me Online play which is actually beneficial to me considering that there isn't anyone to play with in this place and well few atleast but most suck a lot

[Lord_Leperman]

Our love-hate relationship with AC. )

But I'm looking forward to AC:4A not as a competitive AC title, but as a nice looking mecha game that's on the level of Shadow of the Colossus with multiplayer (I always thought if you could have a small standing army fighting against a titan of that magnitude would allow for different degrees of cooperation). Before, I'd look forward to a new AC game as a new fighting arena format, but maybe this time I'll play not because its ac but it might actually a fun mecha co-op game if properly done.

If they'd have a mission structure similar to that of Mechwarrior: Mercenaries (as in how a mission unfolds, the buildup from tanks, choppers, to mechs) with the addition of huge bosses, then I'd be interested. The bosses should also not be in the same right as old AC games where it was as simple as "shoot it till it dies". I'm expecting at the very least some form of intelligent gameplay on the part of From, in the form of having multiple ways to defeat bosses.

For example, the giant quad boss can have multiple targetable parts such as a shield (Okay, Primal Armor) generator on its back. When destroyed, this will reduce the PA power or whatever on the boss unit making it easier to kill, however the generator is located high above the rear of the quad where its protected by various AMS and gun turrets. You can, if you have the proper team, get someone (a sniper or an assault AC) to destroy the turrets while someone from far away blasts the generator with his missiles from safety (Let's assume that the quad does shake up once in a while, making it hard for precision weaponry to hit a particular target at extreme range, thus making missiles useful). Once the shield generator is destroyed, you can opt to start with one of the legs to slow it down (assuming there's a time limit to the mission, where the mission ends once the giant boss reaches a particular area of the map). It is not outside the realm of possibility that From might actually do something like this, as they have pulled it off in Chrome Hounds:

Oh, something interesting: For those who don't play Chrome Hounds, there's parts during the online war theatre where occasionally a nation will break out a super weapon under special conditions. Basically everyone is free to go after it. The mission stays the same during the online session for everyone, so any damage done to the super weapon stays until it's defeated. It usually takes 20 Chrome Hounds to take one out if the player are vets. Originally, about 50-100 people would get their asses handed to them. tongue.gif

But given From's track record with AC, I'm setting the bar quite low.

[azuma-blade]

ampuchit ang laki ng mga boss parang ipis lng yung mga AC sa kanila amf!!!!

[R.Leonhardt]

Their Co-op will be allowing up to 8 players to beat up a gigantic fortress. BTW,there will be bosses protecting those gigantic bosses. Given that it's a fortress and is expected to be carrying other Units to protect itself like the White base. But I don't think From will give AC4 what Chromehounds has.

And about transformation,I heard that only certain parts will transform then the body will just bend over and blablabla. Example: Bipedal leg transforming to a hover which obviously gives more speed. Well maybe that'll work

[NiX]

Nice job on the AC:FA headline on our front page.

Wow I was really happy to see that they got 3 legendary mecha designers for this. Unfortunately, AC needs more than pretty mechs...