2010 RP Elections Discussion Thread

[NiX]

But how would they even check on who a particular member voted for? You can lie, right?

[wildheart]

im not an INC, i dont know how they check it...
i'm a bit curious on this? with respect to INC are the leaders making assumption that members follow the block vote?

[Shintetsu]

@Nix: Of course you can, but you would be doing something very wrong according to their doctrine. Plus there's the conscience factor. Plus they've been lecturing about this (something like fortifying the thought/reasoning) for more than two weeks. So yeah, it's unity or excommunication (if someone tells on you)

@wildheart: Yes, they are.

In my honest opinion, it's like a voting guide, only stricter. It's basically a sin if you don't vote as one with the church according to their doctrine.

EDIT: Something like a test of faith, really. So they say.

[wildheart]

@shintetsu: thats hard for members.... anyone who goes against the leaders will become mavericks...
maybe those who dont agree keep it a secret...

[Shintetsu]

Well yeah, doesn't hurt to be excommunicated by something you aren't part of.

It's hard to explain, really. But it's going to be bothersome for you if something that affected a big part of your life (i.e., being part of an organization) goes haywire, right?

Now back to the topic, who are you guys voring for as President/VP and why? If voting for theyellowdude, please expound, kthx.

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maybe those who dont agree keep it a secret...

Definitely.

[NiX]

I just want to understand though where they got the doctrine that a congregation must vote as one, as willed by a god.

Various quotes from/about Jesus himself refusing to have anything to do with politics:

"My kingdom is not of this world." (John 18:36)

"You are from below; I am from above. You are of this world; I am not of this world." (John 8:23)

The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I want to. So if you worship me, it will all be yours." Jesus answered, "It is written: `Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'" (Luke 4:5–8)

After the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus did, they began to say, "Surely this is the Prophet who is to come into the world." Jesus, knowing that they intended to come and make him king by force, withdrew again into the hills by himself. (John 6:14–15)

Someone in the crowd said to him, "Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me." Jesus replied, "Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?" (Luke 12:13–14)

"Show me the coin used for paying the tax." They brought him a denarius, and he asked them, "Whose portrait is this? And whose inscription?" "Caesar's," they replied. Then he said to them, "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's." When they heard this, they were amazed. So they left him and went away. (Matthew 22:19–22)


He also didn't want the state messing with the church:

When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!" (John 2:13–16)

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Ok, wikipedia on INC bloc voting:

"Unity

The believes that unity is an essential characteristic of "the one true church" and considers unity as a fundamental doctrine and upholds it faithfully. They say this doctrine traced its roots "in the history of God's people" as written in the Bible. Unity practiced by the Iglesia ni Cristo is not like that which is based on the mundane and ordinary, but based and founded on biblical teachings. It is upheld that the unity embraced by the Church is a distinctive mark of a true Christian Church and a unique and a striking characteristic of "the true Church". The Iglesia ni Cristo further states that this unity is distinct and exclusive and can only be found in the true Church and is nothing less that absolute. The Church describes this unity as one in doctrine, one in polity, one in faith, one in worship, and with one heart and one voice.[54]

In his argument to the lawsuit questioning religious organizations requiring their members to vote for a particular candidate, Executive Minister Erano Manalo argued that voting as a bloc is a manifestation of religious unity. He said that the Iglesia voting as one "give flesh to their belief that only by acting in unity with their brethren will they be truly faithful to the Church"."

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edit again:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_are_the_i...ock_voting

Ok, some INC guy answered pretty much all the issues in one go. I'm not necessarily satisfied by the answers, but it'll do.

No.1 "INC supports candidates who will also support them."



Many nonmembers always have this kind of idea, that the INC supports candidates for the exchange of something… One I can give example is about the INC holiday and the so called road renaming to Bro. Erano Manalo. Every thing or step what the politicians done to INC, still the very first thing they will think is that they want the vote of the INC for the coming election. (em I right?) All I can say that they were so childish! Tsk. Tsk. They are not maturing! I am sure why they say it is because of ENVY, in what the INC achieves. They were threatened because nowadays it is being recognized that the attention of the government is on the INC and that their church were ignored and so making INC on the spotlight. Yes. Perfect! And PERIOD! Especially the most who make this a BIG DEAL are the Catholics. Especially Catholic defenders, who make articles on their blogs, sites and whatsoever kind of propaganda materials to oppose to the government on what they have decided. That it is not a good thing to make a special holiday for the Iglesia ni Cristo and that they should not rename road to Bro. Erano Manalo. Huuuh, so many opinions and comments… WHY? Simple word that best describe. Again, because of the word ENVY. Clearly they want to debunk the INC, Tsk. Tsk. An evil thing. FIRST OF ALL, the INC DOESN'T CARE to that Holiday and that road renaming! Because we do not requested it from the government, and the government itself who decided it, not US. A BIG QUESTION FOR YOU, WHAT DO YOU THINK WILL INC GET FROM THOSE? Money? Power? Fame? What??? We know what CHURCH who wants it; even they already HAVE it ever since the SPANISH COLONIAL PERIOD! Haha (History Book please!)


No. 7 "That of the bloc voting of the INC is even not shown in the bible, which teaching is only from the church administration."


Really? Hmmm. Let us see, SO THIS IS IT! WHY DOES THE INC PERFORMS BLOCK VOTING?

In the BIBLE, it is written that the TRUE CHURCH OF CHRIST that is OF GOD, must come up in unity!…

That it would carry out in perfect harmony and in the spirit of true Christian brotherhood, it is stated:

"Behold, how good and how pleasant it is For brethren to dwell together in unity!" Psalm133:1

The Apostles appealed for unity in the letters addressed to the Christians in their time, it is stated:

"I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment." I Cor. 1:10

MEANING OF VOTE:
-Expression of judgment (Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary)

It is said in I Cor. 1: 10,
but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Jesus Christ prayer:
"Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are." I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. John 17:11, 23


Members share with one faith, recognize only one God, the Father in heaven and do things in a united fashion, it is stated:

"here is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all." Eph. 4:4-6

Apostle Paul said:
"May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you the same attitude of mind toward each other that Christ Jesus had, so that with one mind and one voice you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." Rom. 15:5-6

God almighty is glorified who possess that spirit of humility and selflessness because these would enable them to translate the unity of the Church in concrete reality, Apostle Paul wrote the ff:

"then make my joy complete by being like-minded, having the same love, being one in spirit and of one mind. Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed-not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence-continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling," Philip. 2:2-3,12

Apostle Paul vividly described the nature of the Church as an organization, being composed of individual members working in perfect unity.

"For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another." Rom. 12: 4-5

For God of love and peace will remain with the Church:
"Finally, brethren, farewell. Become complete. Be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace will be with you." II Cor. 13:11

NOTE: There were many bible passages that are written were not in this, these are just few of those. That proves that the Church should come up with UNITY!

FYI to all: at the first place, BLOCK VOTING OF THE INC is just ONE of MANY OTHER KINDS OF PRACTICING UNITY IN THE CHURCH. Attack the INC IF… again, IF THE ONLY KIND OF UNITY IN THE INC IS SAID ONLY IN TERMS OF BLOCK VOTING! Understood?!! But you cannot prove it! Why? EVIDENTLY THE CHURCH WAS SEEN UNITED IN ALL ASPECT!!

What isn't answered though is how their leaders come up with who to endorse. Does a magical list descend from the ethereal realm? Does it appear in a dream?

[J.E_Magog]

Matatawag pa bang demokrasya yan.

[Shintetsu]

Uh, I think I heard (more or less) the same teachings last night. The exact same question popped up in my head.

I didn't bother asking, but the preacher said something right after the question popped in my head(psychology?). I don't remember his statement completely, but I vaguely recall him saying that, even as the first Church of Christ (when Jesus was alive) was under the care of his Apostles, we too, as the Church of Christ in these late times, are under the care of the [the exact word he used here was Pamamahala, I don't know what it translates to in english tbh].

We've successfully hijacked the topic

So when it comes down to it, it's a question of who OR what you trust. The question remains though: Who are you guys voting for?

hindi po ako registered voter

[Fox]

I decided a few months ago that i was gonna go for the Gordon/BF tandem, since they were (in my warped viewpoint) among the least evil in the bunch.

At this point, i don't think it matters who i plan on voting for: as i'm registered in Ilocos and i wasn't allowed to get a leave for Monday, any vote that i was planning to cast won't count much.

[Pinkitteee]

[quote='Shintetsu' pid='7842973' dateline='1273239467']
Uh, I think I heard (more or less) the same teachings last night. The exact same question popped up in my head.

I didn't bother asking, but the preacher said something right after the question popped in my head(psychology?). I don't remember his statement completely, but I vaguely recall him saying that, even as the first Church of Christ (when Jesus was alive) was under the care of his Apostles, we too, as the Church of Christ in these late times, are under the care of the [the exact word he used here was Pamamahala, I don't know what it translates to in english tbh].

We've successfully hijacked the topic

got that right o.O don't let your vote go to waste

[Hempire]

Not voting. i don't care. you can excommunicate me. but i will still continue to work for the greater good of humanity and nature.
philippine culture and politics....i will wait for your maturity....
for now. i'll be here loling and but still hopeful in the inside.

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so much potential for an AGRICULTURAL nation...if only the TRIBALISM and distorted hovering MIND MEMES/folk religion would loosen the bonds on the minds of the masses. Being a copy pasta nation...it will be delayed.....oh well. I can wait.
Stay strong Ravens.......topic HIGHjacked. =D

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It's easier to believe a lie told a thousand times than a truth you've never heard before.

[NiX]

LOLing but hopeful on the side. Hahaha. I think that ideal really represents RR.

[atdsutm]

role call to anyone voting right now, i hope there are no casualties in RR

[Fox]

Never got to vote and i went straight home from the office earlier.

Aside from a couple of brawling drunks near the jeep terminal, things were peaceful enough, although there are a lot of reports floating around about killings and vote-buying.

[Sforza]

Thinking back on the campaign period, it's a shame the LP didn't let us know more about some of the candidates they were fielding, especially someone like Yasmin Lao

The only advertising a few of them had was Noynoy coming out and saying, "kailangan ko sila!" Duh.

Dapat din tinanggal yung fake Jun Lozada sa ballot -_-