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Applied fighting game methodology thru the observation of guilty gear et al.
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Post: #1

Just opened this thread so that fighting game enthusiasts exchange info on their diff styles in thier fav games.

leme just start by describing some of my basic styles and routines in general when tackling fighting games.

Reaction vs Anticipation: in fighting games, battles are usually won by how well you react to your oppenents movements(counterattack), but the skills you need to posses in order to react correctly to EVERY move your oppenent dishes out is usually pretty daunting..

Then theres the requisite of this: a good reaction time, knowing how to counter and when is just half of the equation, the actual reacting to the oppponents movement is the other(usually hard when your countering a fast move), yet reacting perfectly you will have 100% chance of winning(but by then you've just memorized all the moves of every char and all thier properties).. there's actually is a method to do this more easily, that is to anticipate the next move(not to be confused with memorizing your opponents move), the way this is achieved is to dictate(another mind game implement) the pace of the battle and leave your opponent with few moves to counter with(counter-counter)..

A basic example for this is, in SF2: throwing fireballs at you opponent will leave them usually with the only option to retaliate- jump over the projectile then attack, in which case you'll couter with a rising attack(eg. dragon puch)..

More to add when I've got the time, feel free to add your techs here..


This is also a punishment for you.
You will be the defender of justice and wear a mask forever,
you won't be able to live as yourself.
You will sacrifice all your happiness for the world.. Eternally..
(Last words to Zero - Lelouch Vi Britania)
(This post was last modified: 03-02-2008 03:43 PM by Grim.)

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02-24-2008 11:50 PM
Post: #2

Also, note the spacing of your character, and his or her ability to control zones of the screen. In 2D games like Street Fighter, characters like Ken are popular because they allow the player to control a large part of the screen: horizontally through a fireball, and vertical-horizontally through Ken's curving dragon punch. This means that they can be spaced or positioned quite a bit aways from the other character and still have some level of threat.

For grapplers it's the same thing, space accordingly. Get up close and personal, and don't let the fireball characters trap you. Once you pull off a throw it's bound to be devastating, so don't worry about the damage you're taking as it's bound to be buffered by your huge health bar also. Just take your time and don't fall for any tricks.

Also, on frames and priorities: some characters have higher priority moves (Bison's Scissor Kick is one if I remember correctly) and execute on a lower frame count (Guile's air backbreaker? Not sure), so be sure to know your opponent's character so as not to do anything stupid with yours, like attacking with something that's going to be almost always beaten or countered easily. That last part's pretty much based on how often you play though.

On 3D fighters, I'm not as knowledgeable, so we'll let someone else cover that.

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02-25-2008 12:47 AM
Post: #3

I always use this formula:

1. Learn staple juggles and combos through practice
2. Go online and watch youtube videos of your character
3. Check out online forums for tips
4. Find best players in area and play them as often as possible

The OP post of the thread would be included as part of #3. I'm not a technical player to be honest, and I prefer learning games through experience as much as possible.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2008 03:23 AM by AppleHead.)

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02-25-2008 03:21 AM
Post: #4

Here in Tondo, my play group have a common practice of using psychological warfare when playing (well who doesn't?). We're really not technical player as most of us are button mashers -until we learn anyway-, but learning a simple 3 or 4 hit combo and placing them well works enough for us.


Play unpredictably - use combos with the same attack direction and animation and place them well. Done right, you will be able to take control of your opponents play. If some of the attacks in that combo could be delayed, use it, sometimes, your opponent would be off guard from trying to attack within that 'delay'.

An example is Bloody Roar's Long. He has 2 chains with the same starting 2 moves, namely a Mid Kick to Low Kick which could be followed by either another Low Kick or his trade mark Machinegun Punch.

Corner you opponent - put more pressure on them by cornering them on walls. That way, if them have to move back from attacks to avoid damage.
(This post was last modified: 02-25-2008 08:03 AM by Serene.)

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02-25-2008 07:56 AM
Post: #5

@Grim: adding a 3rd plane of movement to the fray usually means knowing more extensively the properties of your opponents attacks(hits high, low, mid as well as if it can hit in the z plane), in short you must have learn MORE move sets of you opponent as well as their hit box..

One example I can think abt is in tekken: bryans f,f,2(mach punch, I think), usually u can sidestep this move and counter(this all boils down to your reaction time to execute, mach punch can be crouched, or sidesteped..), while bryans df,3(snake bite) can be evaded by jumping up(unconventional way), blocking low(bryan staggers after block), parying low(very hard!), and funally sidestepping correctly(yes, theres a right way to sidestep this..), snake bite sweep starts from the left to right therfore the correct way to sidestep this is to the right, b4 the move even begins(I might be wrong in the left-right directions, but you get the idea)..


This is also a punishment for you.
You will be the defender of justice and wear a mask forever,
you won't be able to live as yourself.
You will sacrifice all your happiness for the world.. Eternally..
(Last words to Zero - Lelouch Vi Britania)

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02-25-2008 11:47 AM
Post: #6

Another common tactic is the fake. You can lure your opponent to make a move that'll leave him in a volunarable position using a move that in plain site will leave yourself open, when in fact your just positioning yourself for a counter attack..

A good example of this is in Guilty gear: usually when Sol uses his (f,d,df, s) slash type volcanic viper, opponents upon blocking will usualy rush in for a counter, yet a second volcanic viper has a frame advantage in what ever move an opponent use to counter, resulting in a counter hit in Sols part..


This is also a punishment for you.
You will be the defender of justice and wear a mask forever,
you won't be able to live as yourself.
You will sacrifice all your happiness for the world.. Eternally..
(Last words to Zero - Lelouch Vi Britania)

Doom Trigger

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02-25-2008 11:09 PM
Post: #7

Since you guys are talking about fighting games, I have a question!

I've been wanting to learn a 2D fighter, out of boredom. Do you suggest I pick up the latest version of SF, Guilty Gear, or MK? Or if you have any other suggestions, go ahead. I'm looking for something that's both challenging and fun at the same time, with lots of variety in terms of move lists and combinations. I've never played a 2D fighter before, but I do like Tekken, SC and DoA

Oh and I don't have any Nintendo consoles. Thanks!

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02-26-2008 03:04 AM
Post: #8

@dt
mix-up games for me. makes you decide whether to block standing or crouching
the two taekwodo boys has lots of them.

@apple
guilt gear is nice, good depth, lots of characters and moves.
but for starters, I think street fighter 3 is a good choice.

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02-26-2008 03:23 AM
Post: #9

@ Adrian: I know 1st hand your fav fighting techs. how I miss our sparring session, hehe..

@ Apple: it depends on what kind of fighting games you enjoy..

If you like juggles: try the marvel vs everyone-else series.

If your the technical fighting type: try Street fighter 3 or King of fighters xi.

If you like juggles and technicalities: try Guilty gear accent core


This is also a punishment for you.
You will be the defender of justice and wear a mask forever,
you won't be able to live as yourself.
You will sacrifice all your happiness for the world.. Eternally..
(Last words to Zero - Lelouch Vi Britania)

Doom Trigger

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02-26-2008 05:48 PM
Post: #10

Another one of my favorite fighting game principle that I use is fake spamming(don't have a name for this yet). Not to be confused with mix ups(but almost similar), what you do is spam a fast move to death, and just when your opponent learns how to block or counter your spams(hehe), do a move that'll register a sure hit(or almost) in relation to your anticipated counter of your opponent(the way I explain this got you confused right)..

An example fo this is in tekken: Lee's 1,2,f(2 jabs then mist step), can be repeated indefinitely, and in most cases stop a standing attack cold(2 jabs..), there can be 2 outcome to this.

A Inexpirienced player will:

suck the damage, trying to counter, to no avail.

block the jabs, in wich case you can then grab him after the mist step(very effective).

An advanced player will:

will crouch to evade the jabs, in which case you'll be ready to kick him(uf,4) into a juggle.

Basically your forcing your opponent to do a move that'll leave him open for further punishment by using non open spamable move repeatedly..


This is also a punishment for you.
You will be the defender of justice and wear a mask forever,
you won't be able to live as yourself.
You will sacrifice all your happiness for the world.. Eternally..
(Last words to Zero - Lelouch Vi Britania)

Doom Trigger

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02-26-2008 11:15 PM
Post: #11

I don't if this will count as a mix-up or false spamming

I use the flamingo sidestep to flamingo jab buffered to a throw. (very effective, I usually get a side throw)

If the opponent starts to duck, mix it up with d/f+2 Tongue

AEA1

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02-27-2008 11:15 PM
Post: #12

For Tekken, abuse and fake tech traps when playing amateurs! Memorize frame rates and frame traps! Know your character's UC moves! Mix up your lows and highs, don't always go for juggles! Use sidesteps! Anticipate throws!

That's all you need to do to win I think.

+++ +++

I've started on Guilty Gear. It's strange that there's no thread for that series here on RR. My problem now is that I can only play XX: Reload on the PSP since I don't have access to my PS2 since I'm out of state. I'm learning how to use Dizzy and Sol now.

My questions:

- If I learn a character on Reload, will I be able to play AC (Accent Core) without drastic changes?

- What are the major changes between AC and Reload?

- Why is the Guilty Gear following here so small? Is it the same in the Philippines?

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02-28-2008 01:31 AM
Post: #13

@Apple

So ur playing GGXX now. I advise you play Guilty gear judgement japanese version for the psp, that particular copy has guilty gear slash on it(the us version contained only XX), that ver is more close to accent core.

Anyway, aside from 2 new characters, new moves, and new backgrounds, the basic gameplay almost remained unchanged. There were tweaks added to some spamable moves(lyk sol's dust loop), a new perfect push back guard, and new throw down animation(which can be comboed after), all in all it sumed up to many more juggle oportunities.

Just watch

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/TUZb45qYEjY&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/TUZb45qYEjY&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>

What character r u using now?


This is also a punishment for you.
You will be the defender of justice and wear a mask forever,
you won't be able to live as yourself.
You will sacrifice all your happiness for the world.. Eternally..
(Last words to Zero - Lelouch Vi Britania)
(This post was last modified: 02-28-2008 07:56 AM by Doom Trigger.)

Doom Trigger

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02-28-2008 07:48 AM
Post: #14

Thanks for the info! I'm now using Millia and Testament.

Wanted to try Dizzy at first, but pulling off her moves consistently were too hard on the psp.

Problem now is that I cannot find the JAP PSP version Guilty Gear Judgment anywhere. The torrents aren't seeded, and it doesn't seem to be on MU or RS either.

AppleHead

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02-28-2008 11:05 AM
Post: #15

Apple:Why is the Guilty Gear following here so small? Is it the same in the Philippines?

Actually I'm very lonely here(usually playing maniac mode potemkin in vs mode[9 rounds]), since I know very few GG players..

And from what I can tell we're not even in the same island(I want some pvp action!!!), I realy want to play with you sometime. I can give you a copy of GGxx slash for the psp but how is another story, tho if you have access to a ps2, I'd realy recoment accent core.

Hmm, another Testament player(tho It's the 1st time I met one other than me), my characters are EX and non EX Sol, EX Ky, Potemkin, EX chip, Judgement, Dizzy and Testament(tho my limit break is Testament). My tip is to stick to one char 1st.


This is also a punishment for you.
You will be the defender of justice and wear a mask forever,
you won't be able to live as yourself.
You will sacrifice all your happiness for the world.. Eternally..
(Last words to Zero - Lelouch Vi Britania)

Doom Trigger

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02-28-2008 01:09 PM
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