Organized Religion Discussion Thread

[Hempire]

agnostic..you are that.
there is no way to SURELY KNOW because there is a chance.

[atdsutm]

WHO POSTED RELIGIOUS?!?!!?!?!?!!

[J.E_Magog]

TOTALLY UNRELATED but w/e

[Sforza]

TOTALLY UNRELATED but w/e

It's still related imo (to the main thread topic) And its pretty awesome

[NiX]

Haywire:

BTW, I added a lovely poll. No real purpose.

edit:
Religious - someone of a religion and believing in (a) divine being(s)
Atheist - there is no god
Agnostic - there's no way to know whether there is a god or not!
Deist - there's something out there but religion isn't the way to understand it

Andrew: Nothing wrong with that for as long as the person really knows why they believe in whatever it is they believe in.

[Grim]

BTW, I added a lovely poll. No real purpose.

I think we can generalize (for now) that most of us are either atheists or deists. I'm a deist myself. I used to be under the category of religious while I was still in grade school, but as I got older I got more and more familiar with other religions besides Christianity. That's what formed a bigger understanding of the picture for me - that although people subscribe to different beliefs, the majority of them believe in (a) divine being/s.

I believe there is divinity somewhere. Being or not, I think there is. I also believe in doing good. Those two are not necessarily connected in my mind (i.e., do good = go to heaven or some equivalent state), but it's still pretty damn close due to my Catholic upbringing.

Besides, doing good never hurt me.

[HayWire]

I was brought up to think that no matter how much good I will do I will never change the fact that I'm going to hell -____-

[Sforza]

This is a part of something I wrote for one of my classes today. A short part of the discussion includes a brief portion on why atheism is illogical. Agnosticism I can understand, since it's not technically possible to define the nature of a higher being or divine architect.

The Reality of Perception

Man is constantly subjected to sensations, beginning at birth. Because of this, man is conditioned to believe that the world has an absolute material reality, and his or her entire life is built around this viewpoint. All information is picked up through the 5 senses; sight, sound, smell, taste, and touch.

When it comes to our sense of sight/vision, light is reflected off matter which is picked up by photoreceptor cells, which then convert these sensations into electrical impulses which are sent to the brain and processed by the occipital lobe in the cerebrum. It can therefore be said that the brain does not confront the true form of matter, but merely interprets information about the subject. Given this, our sight is reduced to a “deception” of sorts, because we are unable to confirm the truth of what we are actually seeing. It has been proven that electric impulses sent to the brain in a specific fashion can make us hallucinate and see things which we are not actually perceiving at the moment.

As the same holds true for all our other senses, how would we know that real life is not merely a dream which we fail to realize because our habits and prejudices prevent us from doing so?

Even the brain itself can be felt and touched, so how sure are we that the brain is processing all the information it sends us properly? Ultimately, we can only confirm the presence of one absolutely real entity – our own soul or our being, which is not something that can be perceived like the brain. The material world is made up of perceptions shown to the soul. The matter around us on the other hand does not have a a system of self-government, but it is continuously growing and changing, so it must have been created or started by something or someone. This points to the existence of a higher being, if only for the sheer scope of what we already know and have yet to learn about the smallest constructs of matter to the expanse of the universe.

The philosopher Sartre once said something along the lines of, “Humans are incapable of finding an ultimate, irreducible meaning in life, and that the only meaning in life is the one that we ourselves give.” This is quite true, and in fact all of us should abide by this. In fact, doubting ones own view of reality is what we would define as madness. When we perceive the outside world, we should instead accept the fact that while it may not be real, the perceptions from which we take in this reality are indeed our own and are real to us. It is as if all of us have individual pieces of a pie, and together it would create an undeniable whole. Sadly, it is impossible for because of our limited sensory capability.

While we are unable to know real, undeniable truth about the outside world, there has never been any undeniable fact presented that what we see are deceptions. What we see has being; it exists within ourselves and that should be enough. The fact that we can be skeptical about our reality is proof that we do have some truths to begin with.

[Twin-Skies]

@Sforza

Careful there - you might be committing the error of arguing from ignorance.

http://www.skepdic.com/ignorance.html

The argument to ignorance is a logical fallacy of irrelevance occurring when one claims that something is true only because it hasn't been proved false, or that something is false only because it has not been proved true. A claim's truth or falsity depends on supporting or refuting evidence to the claim, not the lack of support for a contrary or contradictory claim. (Contrary claims can't both be true but both can be false, unlike contradictory claims. "Jones was in Chicago at the time of the robbery" and "Jones was in Miami at the time of the robbery" are contrary claims--assuming there is no equivocation with 'Jones' or 'robbery'. "Jones was in Chicago at the time of the robbery" and "Jones was not in Chicago at the time of the robbery" are contradictory. A claim is proved true if its contradictory is proved false, and vice-versa.)

The fact that it cannot be proved that the universe is not designed by an intelligent creator does not prove that it is. Nor does the fact that it cannot be proved that the universe is designed by an intelligent creator prove that it isn't.

And as far as brains are concerned, there is a way to read it: MRIs, and CAT scans.

Moving on, the RCC and CBCP have a lot to answer for now:
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerhea...ed-on-govt

If it weren't to their constant railroading and moralistic bullshit, we would have a more solid samily planning program by now.

[Sforza]

@Sforza

Careful there - you might be committing the error of arguing from ignorance.

http://www.skepdic.com/ignorance.html

And as far as brains are concerned, there is a way to read it: MRIs, and CAT scans.

I didn't argue from ignorance though, since I stated beforehand that agnostics (we can't tell if their is an intelligent creator) do have a point to their logic but atheists do not (they believe that there was no creator).

I don't really see what MRIs and CAT scans have to do with perception because we already understand that sensations are delivered by electrical impulses which are processed by the brain. The scans merely tell us what part of the brain is being used. Of course, the scans themselves could be false perceptions as well and we could be living in the Matrix.

[Twin-Skies]

@Sforza

To be exact, atheists have yet to be shown any conclusive data that can convince them there is a god. Extraordinary claims need to be backed up by equally extraordinary proof.

[Hempire]

PROVE GODS EXIST
PROVE THEY DON'T

ALL IN ALL 'WE' ARE NOT SURE

>>Although if you have moral courage, GO INTO PSYCHEDELIC MODE<<
>>Our human perceptions in the few seconds that we are aware of reality is so fragile as to what we can't see, namely our unconscious ego.
>>I wonder what it's like for the early apes that became self aware......**GOLIATH ONLINE**

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^^^^ First few seconds ^^^^ Watch =D

[Twin-Skies]

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[Hempire]

LOL! Pastor Powers!!!!!

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[Twin-Skies]

Diocese sued after abuse accuser's suicide
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/arti...AD9H8SQF80

Iran's Ayatollah says music is against their sacred laws too
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/aug...usic-islam

If Khameini keeps it up, Iran might as well outlaw "Fun"