Delta Mk.II

[Dacapn]

Ya so i've played this thing personally and ya it's solid ac if you've got the brains to use it, but if you've got AI mentality, you'll end up in a flaming heap.

Yasya is pretty much used to kinda corral your opponent into the close range damage which is where all the potential is.

A few yasya hits can take off 500 ap easily and slap some heat on ya, not mention some leg damage.

It's got the speed to keep the pressure on and decent energy refresh to power the e weapons.

And it can't run into the fortressing issue since the e weapons'll just melt through most acs defense.

So ya, i'm pretty sure most of ya haven't played a human(other than you friends) and probably just stick to the AI in the game(cept crimson: hollacha boi OBG REP!!!) but i'll tell ya it's a totally different ball game.

All in all good shit.

[Crimson]

<!--QuoteBegin-Dacapn+Dec 24 2006, 12:57 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dacapn @ Dec 24 2006, 12:57 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So ya, i'm pretty sure most of ya haven't played a human(other than you friends) and probably just stick to the AI in the game(cept crimson: hollacha boi OBG REP!!!) but i'll tell ya it's a totally different ball game.

All in all good shit. [/quote:de155749b6]
I really didnt follow that part of the post. Were you saying that I should stick to the AI or that everyone except me should stick to the AI? Its 1 in the morning and my brain aint working right...need some clarification there lol.

[Iguana]

Me and Dacapn played on Kai for 20 or so matches non-stop save for the occasional freeze or disconnection.

I used Delta is around 60% of them, and by no means was it easy at ALL to keep Dacapn pressured. Although he avoided the orbitals like the plague, he still maneuvered around and away from them the same way I estimated someone would, OB and all.

By limiting the enemy's movement by little areas of orbital doom, I can estimate just where the opponent is likely to go. Although Delta has no radar, the newly 'restricted' areas of movement allowed for a much easier time keeping track of the target.

When an opponent has an area they're trying to avoid, the temporarily 'limited' areas of movement allow for an easier time moving into a good position to fire the URANUS + PIXIE3 + DRAGON at once.

It's extremely important to keep an eye on the AC's energy though. Take cover or deploy an orbital for some protection and time to refresh the EN Gague a little bit. Gen-busting this AC isn't really that bad, and is actually enouraged if there's cover for it. This is due to the fact that when the generator recharges from busting, it refreshes quicker than normal because it bypasses the red zone, treating it like it's green.

Handy, huh?

The playstyle is indeed similar to 'rounding up the cattle', but the main idea is still to pressure the target directly into the orbital cannon, despite the difficulty.

[wanzerfreak]

So ya, i'm pretty sure most of ya haven't played a human(other than you friends) and probably just stick to the AI in the game(cept crimson: hollacha boi OBG REP!!!) but i'll tell ya it's a totally different ball game.

one word:


<a href='http://ravenrepublic.net/index.php?showforum=41' target='_blank'>PACT.</a>

you guys are lucky some of us here in the republic don't have kai.

sorry if i sound like altair, but i've had it with this whole kai>>>j00 crap.

but i need to take over manila first....

[Iguana]

PACT, lol.

So far, I don't have a single thing on the ban list and I'm more than capable of using Delta Mk.II in an open area. Granted it would proabably be even more difficult than before to use the orbitals, I don't think it would be beyond possibility.

I played Dacapn in the Advance Base the majority of the time, and once in the Ruins but tracking was to annoying there. We ended at the Abandoned Factory with a really fun agressive-play match.

It's not usually the arena that limits the AC, but the habits the pilot has. People say Site-S is way to small, but it's actually pretty big. There's even room to OB-Joust agressively if you can beleive it. I'm not a space-hog that requires three miles between myself and my target at all times before I decide to charge-in, but I really do like Site-S because there's not enough room to backpedal or play keep-away effectively at all. Same with the Ruins, Lab, Space Dock (I wish it was the same as when you play against the 3rd VR Ranker 'Moonlight' with no ship and massive holes in the floor), and Cyber Space.

Honestly, I like small arenas because they force the players to play agressively. If you're not used to playing intense matches, oh well. It's not anyone's fault that you like having a football field between yourself and your target at all times.

Delta Mk.II's playstyle is to control the battlefield. When someone just flies around all day or moves backwards for 80%+ of the time in an open arena and never charges-in, I usually just quit the match and let them know that if they're going to keep doing that I'm not going to play with them at all.

There is -nothing- I hate more than having to chase someone to even have an exchange in fire. A good match is when both pilots play aggressively and push their AC designs to the limit, no matter what the design is. When you just watch one person chase after the other all day, there's no intensity at all.

Seriously, I quit the matches from boredom more than frustration. "Oh look, I have to chase this person who is backpedaling me with mid-range weaponry while I have an almost close-quarters exclusive weapon load. If I decide to keep following them, they'll most likely have the AP lead my the time this match is over, and if I quit the match, they'll probably be upset and call their backpedaling 'range-control' or 'dodging' or some other lame label like that."

When you move backwards for 80% of the match, you're backpedaling, no matter what the distance between both ACs happens to be. When people never charge-in and play for fun, it just takes the 'life' out of the entire match. Sorry, but I'm not the AI. Chasing after backpedalers isn't what I consider to be fun at all.

Anyways, that's just my opinion of having majorly open arenas. If your precious verts are blocked by the roof, that's just unfortunate. Drop them and continue the match to the best of your ability.

If you start considering the quality of the match based on the arena promoting your weapons or not, that just sucks. Think of the tactics people can use to -ruin- matches by having to much room and nearly no limits. I assure you -that- can suck more than being a paper OB core AC against an MG-Arms rushing AC at Site-S any day.

"If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen." I like the heat, a whooole lot.

[Grim]

I think that there is a distinct difference between how Americans play Armored Core, and how Filipinos do. That's all I'm going to say.

[Iguana]

Bring-out the best in your opponent's AC, not just yours.

That's the real sportsmanship of playing AC for me.

Dacapn could have easily just backpedaled every single match, but he got in there instead and tested-out not only his AC to it's limits, but mine as well.

That's the way to have some serious AC fun, and you don't need to be a rusher at all to do that.

Seriously, I don't understand where people get the idea that playing aggressively makes you a rusher. The definition of a rusher is using an AC with the idea of having the most damage possible in the shortest amount of time with no regard to the duration of that firepower. A good example is the Mini-Sawa + GRIFFON, they're both majorly good damage dealers and they run-out extremely fast.

You can have two starting ACs in Site-S which causes them to play aggressively. Then suddenly people call it rushing. That kind of thinking really drives me up the wall, because playing agressively does NOT make you a rusher!

Yeah, I'm done venting my steam and frustrations now. lol

[wanzerfreak]

I think that there is a distinct difference between how Americans play Armored Core, and how filipinos&nbsp; do. That's all I'm going to say.

fix'd.

[Grim]

<!--QuoteBegin-wanzerfreak+Dec 24 2006, 06:19 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (wanzerfreak @ Dec 24 2006, 06:19 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->

I think that there is a distinct difference between how Americans play Armored Core, and how filipinos&nbsp; do. That's all I'm going to say.

fix'd. [/quote:dda1ba7307]
Win. Changed it too.

[Lord_Leperman]

Well, the drain is manageable even with the YASYA, although I suggest the R3 for your lefty instead of the DRAGON so at least you can leave the URANUS' EOs on for a longer time than with the DRAGON on, plus its more accurate, lighter and has a higher damage rate than the DRAGON. I also suggest the F69 FCS as you're armed with short-range weapons anyway, and defense needs to be worked on a bit more.

As for strategies, I don't know how you intend to bait and herd the opponent by sandwiching him between the YASYA and your guns, but its very risky. Say you're fighting against someone who's not so aggressive, and decide to do a pincer attack by launching a pair of the YASYA's OCs then circling to your opponent's back, your opponent can always look for another way out of the trap by simply going to a different direction away from the YASYA.

The following diagram assumes that both ACs are armed with weapons with the same damage rate and effective range with the exception of the YASYA.

I.
YASYA
you
|
|
|
v
opponent

II.
YASYA OCs


----------------you (Shoot back minus the Pixie3)
---------------/
--------------/
------------ /
opponent (Backs off for a bit while still shooting all weapons at you)

III.
YASYA (Out of attacking range)





Opponent-------------You (still trying to encircle opponent)


In this case, you still suffer the problems of fighting a backpedaling opponent while you get into position. You're trading fire against a fully armed opponent while you're trying to flank him with only 2 of 3 of your offensive capabilities and not to mention that your opponent is backpedaling, meaning more of his shots will land against yours. In the end, you lose out trading shots against an opponent, and to quote Nix "why, under any circumstances, would you allow yourself to be pushed towards yasya though?" human players would avoid it like the plague, as they have the option of moving in any direction not covered by the YASYA.

In short, you can't fully trap your opponent with the YASYA unless you're willing to take a lot of sacrifices like getting hit more often than you can hit your opponent and losing energy by getting into the proper position that you we're talking about. In addition, the trade-off of getting into that proper position would mean massive losses to your AP, and I'm not sure if the YASYA can do the same amount of damage to your opponent as it can barely hit anything except targets which are below it.

My analysis of this comes from both theory and experience; I'll reserve my final judgment till I use this. If you can be more specific on how you use this AC I'd gladly give it for a spin against someone like Nix under tournament conditions (PACT1 rules) when we meet next week. I'll post vids as well.

[J.E_Magog]

what the hell? there's barely a comment on this design yesterday.
you might want to try moving the DRAGON to the right arm then equip a NIX to the left arm. and try testing your ACs against aggressive ai like evangel or daemon to see how it performs under pressure.

[NiX]

<!--QuoteBegin-Dacapn+Dec 24 2006, 01:57 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dacapn @ Dec 24 2006, 01:57 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> So ya, i'm pretty sure most of ya haven't played a human(other than you friends) and probably just stick to the AI in the game(cept crimson:&nbsp; hollacha boi OBG REP!!!) but i'll tell ya it's a totally different ball game. [/quote:43c6233836]
<a href='http://youtube.com/profile?user=Leperman' target='_blank'>http://youtube.com/profile?user=Leperman</a>

Go see for yourself.

And in all fairness to our members who are stuck with fighting the AI due to geological boundaries (jonevangelist, wanzerfreak), I can guarantee that they know what they are doing even under their circumstances. I bet they're better than many others who have access to human versus human.

Please don't think any less of us just because some of us don't see some things the way ACO sees them.

<!--QuoteBegin-Iguana+--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Iguana)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->PACT, lol.[/quote:43c6233836]

And what do you mean by that, good sir?

[wanzerfreak]

thanks, man.


btw,

this design has the lotus on. by the time you arrive at your optimum range after chasing you opponent, you would've run out of energy....or just enough for a few bursts that would hardly make any difference.

And what do you mean by that, good sir?

let's not hope it's not about the kai>>>j00 thing i was talking about because things will really get nasty. and i have a good feeling that i won't be firing the first shot, because i have yet to participate in PACT.

[Iguana]

Leperman, your diagram has happened quite alot, but there's a reason Delta has three weapons to fire in unison as any given time. The idea of the YASYA is indeed to pressure the opponent, but it also changes the battlefield by quite alot once one is deployed. So the given scenario you provided was almost exclusively possible with people that do nothing but backpedal for entire matches.

As I said before, the newly limited area is somewhere the opponent won't usually go. This allows me to close-in to a more ideal space and really put the main source of damage on my target, namely URANUS + PIXIE3 + DRAGON at once. YASYA is intended entirely for control of the battlefield.

I assure you, chasing Dacapn when he OBs away after deploying the YASYA wasn't easy at all, but this allowed for me to have a very good estimate of where his next course of movement was. What I need to do is get in close with my target, deploy, and watch them either take the most likely route to 'safety', or run straight towards the OC and be caught in the pincer.

Just remember, the YASYA is entirely for battefiled control, and it is by no means Delta Mk.II's primary method of attacking. When the enemy moves away from the orbital by in any direction, I'm already right on their case in an up-close manner. Because my targets rarely go near the OCs, I'm able to close-in without having to worry about them going right behind me.

If they do go behind me, they'll anwer to the YASYA OCs (or even the pincer if they hesitate going around or through them).

I'm trying to make this sound as simple as possible, and this method hasn't worked more than 40% in each match, but I attribute that to my lack of practice with it against human players.

Besides, if someone really does use 100% backpedaling tactics, I'll either drop the YASYA for the extra speed and EN Supply, or just quit the match out of boredom. I'm not the AI, and when someone says 'they have no choice' but to backpedal, they're wrong.

Unless they're a tank, because tanks can do anything just like ninjas.

Regardless though, Delta Mk.II has the speed, defense, and overall firepower to perform just fine with this difficult-but-awesome method of attack.

And Leperman, there isn't a single player I have met that backpedals Delta Mk.II at a range of 110m or less, because that's the ideal target range for the URANUS + PIXIE3 + DRAGON to hit their target with great accuracy. I usually deploy the YASYA right next to them and close-in.

DFA is also heavily discouraged by the YASYA OCs because no-one wants to hover above or move in a downward direction towards them for any reason at all, lol.

I encourage more questions, it helps me see any possible flaws in the design.

[Iguana]

By the way, on that YouTube link.

The video quality was weird, but that match looked to be to much of what people on Kai dislike on so many levels: 100% mid-range spam.

Blind-firing the grenade launcher and hoping the second round hits when the thing locks-on during the proccess, and the LADON + OB / DFA is an old one to. The ranges those two were doing it at was waaaay to far away. There was no intensity in those videos, just a constant game of keep-away quad juking.

Not to say they suck, but those two have massive space issues, no wonder RR detests closed arenas so much, it's way out of players like Leperman's comfort zone. I'd like to play one of you over there sometime, but I have this nagging feeling that most of you would just backpedal all day long.

Yeah, that's the kind of playing style people hate with a passion on Kai.

Especially myself.