MMA and Boxing Discussions

[Grim]

Brock vs Carwin... sorry Shane, you're a nice guy but I'm gonna give it to Brock.

I think Forrest needs a rebound fight bad, and Dana gave it to him. Tito Ortiz is a good fighter but I think he's already too tired physically already. Still, he could pull it off, after all he almost got Machida hahaha

[Sforza]

Best explanation so far of why Machida's been so dominant thus far:

It’s something I like about MMA, the dearth of rules when compared to other sports means that the gameplay can follow highly complex, mathematical pattern of evolution. It’s like Go; since there’s very few rules, incredibly complex strategies evolve.

MMA is like that, and in these kinds of systems, we always see an evolution from chaos to order. While the blank board of a new Go game represents almost infinite possibilities (chaos), a developed game has a significantly reduced number of possible moves; it has moved to a more ordered system.

Combine this with natural selection (we don’t continue to do things that don’t work) and you have the basis for the natural evolution of MMA. So from chaos (Art Jimmerson with one glove), MMA is evolving into a seriously complex and exciting sport.

Now for the added fun; there’s a hidden easter egg in the system I just described. As fighters gravitate more and more to what “works,” they lose diversity. What happens to any species when they lose diversity? They optimize for their current environment, but they’re vulnerable, because they all have the same weaknesses. In nature, that means that a single disease or virus can wipe out an entire population. In MMA, it means that every now and then, a fighter will come out that is able to dominate EVERYBODY. I give you, Lyoto Machida.

Reading the article linked below was interesting because the author bemoans how most MMA schools are only offering muay thai, wrestling and BJJ at the same time. This is resulting in fighters like Forrest Griffin (above, gifs) who are competent in all aspects but master of none of them. It also implies that GSP is a freak of nature.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/10/9/107...raditional

---

Not related to post above. Scroll to 1:32, Jon Jones does Asuka's spinning low step to backfist (yes, from Tekken) This guy is really interesting to watch. Too bad he's in the same division as Machida.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qsy8aT--bGU&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qsy8aT--bGU&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

[NiX]

Haha I think that concept applies to a lot of competitive fields.

Like Pro StarCraft for example. In the early days, Boxer could win with some really crazy strats. Cuteness used to work so much more. Nowadays, most matches are macro-fests, with players simply battling to determine who has mechanical superiority. It's very rare to see something surprising because players account for almost everything when they prepare strats.

[Mjting]

right on the money with that article. why always muay thai, bjj and wrestling?????? therefore, there are like a bajillion forrest griffins out there?? it's also funny how joe rogan, mike goldberg and some other UFC commentator/marketer overhype these kinds of fighters when they cant do shit vs the more crisp, technical ones.

[AppleHead]

Using Muay Thai also seems to get you hit a lot more, leading to concussions and simply blunt head trauma which is just as bad when done repeatedly. This is very bad for the future heath of fighters.

Think Nogueira and Griffin, they'll probably end up like Ali, or even worse, Chris Benoit

[Sforza]

Wanderlei Silva vs Sexyama at UFC 108

http://www.sbnation.com/2009/9/29/106016...vs-akiyama

This is going to be a really fun fight.

[Grim]

Wanderlei Silva vs Sexyama at UFC 108

Wand will keep punching, Sexyama will keep catching them with his face, and will keep smiling at Wand. Hahaha!

[Sforza]

Just a reminder, this guy is fighting on Saturday. Sunday in the Philippines.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/yoshi...achida.png

[NiX]

Yeah!!

[atdsutm]

machida wins

[Mjting]

Hmmm...analysis of mine for the championship fight between machida and rua...



rua landed a lot more shots imho(leg kicks primarily), and machida with fewer but more "ouch" shots like the knee flurry in the first, the solid knee in second and third, flurry that got rua in trouble in the third, and body shots with the kicks and a few head shots. not that much in the last rounds though.
shogun landed a lot of leg kicks, but most of those were not that clean as the leg kicks in griffin rampage-there WERE some tho. lotta really good body kicks too! (most of those were from exchanges)

what's interesting is when they "clash" both almost always lands something solid to the other-machida with face or body punch(and the occasional knee), and rua with a body or leg kick( it was like shogun was a taekwondo guy in this fight)

this was one of the harder fights for me to judge. there were a lot of factors that could validate each fighter to win

but this just made shogun one of my favorite fighters now, giving lyoto a hard time merits something.

I had rounds 1-3 for lyoto, while 4-5 for rua. 4 and 5 were the rounds that the leg kicks took their toll and started slowing machida down. imho, leg kicks dont win u championships. rua got in to trouble a couple of times too-but great great performance still.

yep i know, general concensus was shogun got robbed, but that was because if u were watching from tv, you then kept hearing rogan and goldie mentioning the kicks and the like, while not even mentioning stuff machida landed before the kick. yep im a lyoto fan, and i actually thought rua had it won(thanks to rogan and his very hypnotizing commentary that rua was dominating when he wasnt). but if you really break the fight down, machida did not get into trouble at all and landed a lot of clean stuff too. mostly from the first three rounds tho.

[Sforza]

Watching the fight was like watching two god tier SF players go at it. You get a lot of pokes, mind-reading and attention to spacing. It isn't really clear who's winning until the fight is over.

The commentators seemed to be way too impressed with the leg kicks of shogun. Machida seemed to hit the more solid shots throughout the fight, but Shogun was catching up in the end. If the fight had no round limits and would only end if someone gets KO'd or is unable to continue, I think Shogun would have won.

I'd be interested in watching a rematch, or Shogun Rua vs Anderson Silva. Wonder if people got really bored with the fight, since there was no real "stand and bang" exchange.

Edit: Watched the fight again. I think Shogun clearly won at least 3 of the 5 rounds, and hurt Machida a lot more. On second thought, Shogun won.

[Mjting]

round breakdown for me:

rd. 1- machida's round based on the knee flurry that he gave shogun, plus some hard counter straight lefts to the face

rd. 2- probably the most debatable round, but most people (including myself) thought it was still machida via the knee,counter punching plus the body kicks

rd. 3-definitely machida's rd. the flurry which hurt rua a lot won this for him

rd. 4-rua all the way, machida starting to get a bit gassed and slowed thanks to the kicks.

rd. 5-rua all the way too. machida almost did nothing this rd. but try to control space.


http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news;_ylt=At...&type=lgns

[Mjting]

wow, no comments after mine and sforza's?

[NiX]

Haven't watched it yet, hahah. But everyone is saying that Shogun got robbed. Hahhaha