apocalypse I

[beastkiller]

Pilot name: Beastkiller
AC name: Apocalypse

Frame
QUEEN
83UA
BABOON
78A

Internal and motive parts
F91DSR
KUJAKU
FURUNA

Weapons
GRE82552
GL
SKYLLA
81G
95G

Optionals
AMINO
ES
SS
ORGANELLE
GOLGI
HISTON
MARISHI

Frame colors
Base 1/0/0
Aid 41/84/23
Optional 0/0/0
Detail 64/69/65
Joint 0/0/0
cammo pattern


designed to take punishment at most weapons in the field to compensate to the mobility as most tanks disadvantage (proven at the tourney hehehehe) well at least my design works at the tourney. fire power and heavy armor thats the way of winning the battle for me

[maitreya]

I suggest swapping the SKYLLA for another back weapon. It's MV is kinda slow, making it easy to dodge. Maybe a spam weapon? LGL or LADON maybe?

Isn't KUJAKU + FURUNA too much for the AC? Sorry, but I haven't tested that combo yet with this setup.

[beastkiller]

but 4 me those 2 works well the generator and the radiator

[wanzerfreak]

i think the kujaku+furuna is totally unnecessary. unless, you have a lamia2 on.

the lamia2 and GL are perfect for this thing.

[Grim]

<!--QuoteBegin-beastkiller+Nov 15 2006, 05:26 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (beastkiller @ Nov 15 2006, 05:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> fire power and heavy armor thats the way of winning the battle for me [/quote:525d206d06]
Yes, but don't you think that there is also a point of having too much firepower and ammo? It constricts the mobility of the AC heavily. Ang nangyayari tuloy, hindi masyadong effective yung design.

I suggest lightening up the internals a bit. Fudoh + Ananda, kahit corny at gamit na gamit na yung setup na yun, works. Gamit na gamit siya precisely because nagbibigay siya ng large capacity at adequate cooling na kailangan ng tanks for movement, pero hindi rin siya ganun kabigat. Sa tingin ko, hindi lang dahil tank ka, dapat mong ilagay ang lahat ng weapons dun. Just a thought.

Also, all your weapons have narrow and deep type lockboxes. Not very good for competitive play, lalo na kung yung kalaban mo mobile. I know na pwede kang maghintay at hayaang lumapit sila sayo habang kumukuha ka ng lock, pero hindi yun guarantee na tatama yung round. The truth is, they will miss most of the time, dahil nga screwy ang accuracy sa LR. I suggest dropping the 95G on the left, switch it to an HP, and put on Volute or F73H for the FCS. For the backmounts, I agree with what the others said in removing Skylla. Ladon, Lamia2, Geryon or even removing one of the backmounts entirely would be good alternatives. After all, GL is pretty deadly in itself.

I think I should let you know that Organelle does nothing productive for the design. Your legs wont get that much speed anyway, what will you need extra braking for?

Finally, I should also say that once you get flanked in this thing, you're pretty much dead. Even with the Codon on, the 78A's turning speed is just too little to keep up with anything else. I suggest you put on some OB core, like Eos, or the Anoku turn boosters. It's the only way to save tanks in LR in my opinion.

Here's a quick redesign:

Queen -> Eye3
UA -> Eos (or not if you don't like OB, don't put it, I'm just saying it's very difficult to effectively play a tank without it )
78A -> LT71, Boar, Boar2, Grizzly, LHT92 (you'll have to lighten your load a bit though)
F91DSN -> Volute or F73H
Kujaku -> Fudoh
Furuna -> Ananda
no internals -> Medusa
SS2 -> Anoku (or not, it depends)
Skylla -> Ladon, Lamia2, Geryon or none
95G -> HP

Amino, ES, Kissyoh, L+, Codon, Golgi

Try mixing and matching those parts, see what you can come up with. And above all, remember: pagaanin mo itong AC na 'to.

Of course, this is coming from a lightweight player, so medyo skewed ang criticism ko towards making things faster. We'll have see if there's another heavy tank-oriented player around here and ask him if he could improve your design a bit more.

[beastkiller]

well thanks for the advice grimlok well i use skylla for cqb (close quarter battles) especially bladers plus hit it with gl inmy left hand its a good combo it is from experince well may kon ting story that inspire me to do the set up there was a match between the chinese kungfu vs the thai boxers all the chinese kung fu fighters were lost because the kung fu were fast at attack but they wer not able to withstand punishment were the thai boxers were design to absorb punish ment just like the mobile ac's there are not anle to withstnd punishment on an encounter from my experince

[wanzerfreak]

just because it worked for the thai boxer it doesn't always mean it would work on this ac. i dare you try this against zinaida.


and use punctuations please.

btw,

IIRC, skylla has ping time and ND lock. <---it's bad for CQ.

[NiX]

Beastkiller, sorry if I used Orbit Cannons on you like I did in our free-play match but I was trying to prove a point when I did that. Defense and firepower won't save you in all situations. A mobile AC with accurate long-range ENERGY weapons will easily destroy most tanks in LR... and that's the kind of AC that you specifically have to prepare against.

Definitely tone down KUJAKU and FURUNA. If you insist on keeping the KUJAKU, then at least replace the FURUNA.

For generators, you can keep the KUJAKU but the FUDOH or the G91 will serve you just fine for a lot less heat.

For your radiator, ANANDA is good enough. If you're not happy with it, R92 is the highest you should go. RAGORA or FURUNA is OVERKILL.

As for the legs, try the A2 tank legs.

Weapons: Definitely drop the SKYLLA. Sure it may work for CQC like you said, but what if your opponent doesn't even wanna come close? I suggest using an accurate energy weapon such as the LADON or the any in the GERYON series.

Definitely ditch the left grenade rifle and use either a machine gun, a handgun, or a shotgun. You can even use a weapon with a Special-type lockbox if you want but please don't use an ND-type weapon.

Countermeasures: Definitely have some form of AMS for this thing aside from the built-in CAMS. Have decoys at least.

Also, if you want side shields, the energy side shields are probably more worth it for tanks, especially for this one since you don't have OB anyway. It'll protect you (somewhat though not by much) against things such as blades and orbit cannons.

Hope that helps.

[wanzerfreak]

any of the linear cannons are perfect too. this tank will need all the stopping power to slow down LWs and fast mids. a left WS weapon would give a bigger lockbox.

[Lord_Leperman]

Agreed with the posts earlier.

Tanks in LR really need OB to survive and attack, simply because other ACs can simply pellet you with projectiles (especialy missiles) outside your effective range.

The analogy between a Thai-kickboxer and a Kung-fu dude would have been inadiquate since both martial artists have the same effective range (distance of the arms and legs from the opponent, give or take a few meters for the lunges made by both fighters), and fighters with the same effective range, striking power, and speed would mean that the fighter's defense would determine the last man standing. In AC terms, this would translate as 'damage racing' where two ACs duke it out at CQ with as much weaponry in the shortest amount of time in the hopes that the opponent's AC gives in.

However, that is not the case often in AC as different weapons on different ACs have different effective ranges as well. Apocalypse's current configuration can only dish out its weapons at best in medium range with the GL (and its rate of fire is as slow as hell), and the poor sized lockbox does not help at all (notice the BIG difference when you arm the NIX for the left hand and equip the F73H as your FCS). At best, you'd be hitting ACs from a range no more than 250m, and coupled witht the tank's current top speed makes it very poor at distance control, meaning faster ACs can peck at you from a range beyond 300 and continuously backpedal outside your effective range.

A better analogy would be a longbow archer and a knight with a sword. The archer can move faster than a knight and is equiped with a bow. He is also not encumbered by the armor worn by a Knight, but he has enough running speed to get away from a Knight's sword.

The knight can take punishment thanks to its armor and can deal damage with its sword, however it has a problem going after its targets, especialy if they can run faster than the knight can (add that the knight's armor would significantly decrease the knight's stamina).

At the end of the day, the archer would have taken pot-shots with its bow without having the knight ever touch him. Now, lets give the knight a fighting chance by giving him a horse (hint: OB). The knight can now joust towards his opponent, and he can also take whatever his opponent throws at him thanks to its armor, making it harder for the archer to take-down his target.

Grimlok's suggestions are a good start and you might also want to take a look at Nix's tank (http://ravenrepublic.net/index.php?showtopic=305) which is a good example of the type of tank I'm talking about:

For the third time, this tank of mine has evolved. I'm finding out that tanks are a lot harder to fine-tune than other types of ACs. However, I think (hopefully) this AC is ready for some human versus. I can't wait. tongue.gif

Head: YH15-DRONE
Core: C06-EOS
Arms: A04-BABOON
Legs: CR-LT81A2
Booster: built in
FCS: CR-F73H
Generator: CR-G91
Radiator: ANANDA
Inside: I05D-MEDUSA DECOY DISPENSER
Extension: RENGA MISSILE COUNTER
Back Unit R: CR-WB78GL GRENADE LAUNCHER
Back Unit L: CR-WB91LGL LINEARGUN
Arm Unit R: CR-WR73RS SNIPER RIFLE
Arm Unit L: CR-WH01HP HANDGUN


Since I've got 2400/1800 defense, I'm a little vulnerable to energy weapons. However, I'm banking on the fact that most designs with energy weapons have shell weapons too, so things will even out. Also, if I'm persistent with my GL Jousting, the opponent is bound to have less AP than me at all times.

This is an example of a balanced, heavy armor tank, where it has the potential for mobility while not compromising defense. It also has accurate weapons for dealing with pesky lightweights (no offense to anyone ) and retains the OB function to help in distance control.

Using a tank can be very hard, but with practice it can be one of the more devastating AC types in the game. The tank works, but it can be made much better.

Oh, and some quick advise when using tanks:

Missiles and energy weapons are your WORST enemy (especialy the former) so its all worth it to invest in EN defense in tuning and different anti-missile systems (decoys, chaff, and AMS).

[NiX]

One more thing to add:

For tanks, avoid heads such as the EYE3 and the SPIDER because they break ridiculously quickly on tanks.

EYE4 and DRONE work really well for tanks because they hardly ever break.

And yes, definitely remove the ORGANELLE optional part.

EDIT - haha this is turning out to be the "how to build a tank" thread. )

[Grim]

<!--QuoteBegin-NiX+Nov 18 2006, 01:07 AM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NiX @ Nov 18 2006, 01:07 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> For tanks, avoid heads such as the EYE3 and the SPIDER because they break ridiculously quickly on tanks. [/quote:0cb37def68]
I never knew that.

Why so? Or is it just one of those in-game things?

[NiX]

For some reason, since tanks stand lower than most ACs, their heads get hit a lot more often... hence, heads break ridiculously quickly on tanks. Try a tank out and you'll notice really quickly.

If you think the EYE3 already breaks really quickly on a biped, try it out on a tank. It'll break so much sooner. Hahah.

So yeah... on tanks, definitely equip heads that have proven to last long.

[wanzerfreak]

heads also break easily with quads too. i found that out when neo-oracle chopped my thundershot's head off before i even reached the 5000 AP mark.

[beastkiller]

well thanks for that advice guys i gladly appricate it nix u dnt have to say sorry at it at least i learn from it that at least there are fight that im vunerable at certain situations and i admit that lack of countermeasures was the fatal mistake during the tourney it could have turn the tide if i used them at that time. well so much for that mistake.