Help with optimizing my PVP loadouts.

[Hamstah_Fwend]

What the title said. 

I think I've got something good going with dual Zimmermans and stun needles. I'd consider my "main" loadout to be this Spring Chicken build.


However as we all know, the wheelchair legs are busted so I mounted the same setup on those legs.


I also tried to see if I could fit Zimmermans and Songbirds with Kazuar legs, it actually works great if you can deal with the hilariously low AP and energy cap.


Open to suggestions on optimizing these further. I'm torn between RJ and wheelchair legs because, while the wheelchair is fast, I'm really enjoying the movement with RJ QB's and jumps.

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After seeing FightinCowboy's thoughts on Zimmers, I've decided to figure out a non-Zimmer build. Fortunately his Murakumo build gave me some ideas for a melee loadout.

[Penguin Deus]

I think I've got something good going with dual Zimmermans and stun needles. I'd consider my "main" loadout to be this Spring Chicken build.

However as we all know, the wheelchair legs are busted so I mounted the same setup on those legs.

---

After seeing FightinCowboy's thoughts on Zimmers, I've decided to figure out a non-Zimmer build. Fortunately his Murakumo build gave me some ideas for a melee loadout.

Yeah, I was just about to say...those legs might be busted (I don't know enough about them, personally) but I do know that the dual zimmermanns is widely considered the strongest handhelds, and the dual stun needles are considered the strongest backmounts.  Dual zims with dual SNAs is basically the meta, right now. 

I'm kinda glad you brought up that post from Cowboy, too, because he's said in a few videos now that he expects both of those weapons to get patched soon, because he felt they were too strong.

I'm not sure I agree, yet, because I haven't had serious problems against them (I mean like abnormal ones), but I haven't done heavy amounts of 1v1, yet, either.  I've been doing some 3v3 though.  Admittedly, I don't have any parts yet (I basically started PvPing the second Nest opened), but I'm too stupid and bloodthirsty to resist a fight.

I can't comment too much on your current build, as I don't recognize a lot of the parts...but I know that shotgun and sword bots work pretty good in PvP!  I've seen lots that did well, especially with that bigger energy shotgun.  That thing hits like a truck.  Has that lower boost speed of 250 been an issue, at all?

[Lord_Leperman]

A good alternative I've found for the Stun Needle are the TURENO kinetic missiles. They have a fast travel time, almost like a direct fire weapon that bipeds have to stop in place to launch these missiles. The only downside is the very long lock-on time, but they're close enough in terms of damage, stun, and direct damage.

Agreed on the Zimmermans, they'll prolly get nerfed next patch. I can't find an alternative for these hand weapons, as they really outshine everything else. Haldeman doesn't give the same oomph, and anything as stronger requires your AC to stand on the spot to fire.

[Penguin Deus]

Were you getting good results with using both the lance and the ashmead, together?  I dig the idea but I don't think I could pull that off, at the moment.  I really like the lance, though...I'm thinking I want to try and incorporate it into my build, too.

A good alternative I've found for the Stun Needle are the TURENO kinetic missiles. 

Where do you get the tureno?  I don't think I have access to that, yet.

Agreed on the Zimmermans, they'll prolly get nerfed next patch. I can't find an alternative for these hand weapons, as they really outshine everything else. Haldeman doesn't give the same oomph, and anything as stronger requires your AC to stand on the spot to fire.

Yeah, the more exposure I've gotten, the more it makes sense to me that people are upset about them.  A zim is basically just a gatling gun, but superior in every conceivable way.  I'm not sure I'm convinced they are broken, yet, as I mostly chalk up my troubles to a lack of ability and not having a good bot put together, just yet...but I get it, at least.

[Lord_Leperman]

Where do you get the tureno?  I don't think I have access to that, yet.

New game++, basically 3rd playthrough.

The Analysis Arena, reward for beating one of the last 3 rankers I believe? Not sure, but definitely on my 3rd play though.

[Hamstah_Fwend]

Were you getting good results with using both the lance and the ashmead, together?  I dig the idea but I don't think I could pull that off, at the moment.  I really like the lance, though...I'm thinking I want to try and incorporate it into my build, too.

Ashmead needs...a bit of work in PVP. I find that it's best to just use it uncharged, the charge takes way too long -- and unlike the lance, it doesn't make up for it with travel distance and tracking.

A better-balanced melee loadout would be pulse blade and lance -- ole reliable stuff that's easy to land, and deals respectable damage.

My current "main" (a.k.a. preferred build that isn't Zimmers or missile boat) uses dual Earshots. I'm just figuring out what arm weapons to use for consistently and reliably getting staggers for the Earshot finisher: I'm currently on pulse blade and flip-flopping between Harris or Wuerger.

[Penguin Deus]

Oh, that's interesting.  How are you liking the EARSHOTs?

Yeah, I love ASHMEAD, but it's tricky to use against the meta stuff, for sure.  I have a bot that uses it that I adore, but I was fighting my boy's wheelchair tank that has akimbo ZIMMERMANs and SONGBIRDS...and I couldn't win a best of 3, even after several tries.

[Hamstah_Fwend]

Oh, that's interesting.  How are you liking the EARSHOTs?

Yeah, I love ASHMEAD, but it's tricky to use against the meta stuff, for sure.  I have a bot that uses it that I adore, but I was fighting my boy's wheelchair tank that has akimbo ZIMMERMANs and SONGBIRDS...and I couldn't win a best of 3, even after several tries.

Earshots are definitely very fun, and satisfying to hit with. They deal tons of stagger and also tons of damage on direct hit. The long cooldown and VERY telegraphed firing stance are their main drawbacks, but the splash damage also means you don't have to be that accurate.

My best non-Zimmerman PVP results have actually been with Earshots, dual gats, and AP gouge:
 

This is my current Zimms loadout. It does do better than any of my other AC's by a fairly large margin, and it's also been useful for seeing how the game looks from Zimmerman POV.

[Hamstah_Fwend]

My quest to figure out a melee build continues.

• Mainly inspired by Mood's build but with an attack drone added. I want something else to threaten that stagger bar, a drone might be nice because I don't have to remember to fire them as often.
  
• If I'm on Nacht legs I'm forced to downgrade the Zimmer to a Sweet Sixteen, or just lose the R shoulder slot -- fist/Zimmer swap has potential.
  
• Firmeza legs lets me carry a Zimmer and the Huxley.
  
• I am honestly undecided between Buerzel and Alula. AB Thrust means easier chasing, but faster QB cooldown may be more important for a lightweight.
  

Suggestions?

[Goat]

If you really need to chase someone down, go with the BUERZEL. You get more boost out of the melee thrust as well, but I would personally use an ALULA instead for the QB cooldown, not to mention you would get more opportunities for feigning around. You could go with the KIKAKU's melee thrust, but you get a lot less speed with it.

Personally I find that there are other ways to move around an opponent if you don't rely on QBing in case you opt for a BUERZEL, but I would still keep that cooldown low for when the situation calls for it, especially when you need that QB cooldown for cancelling. AB-strafing can be wasteful.

Note that this is just a versus-AI video, so this is literally just a simulation. You'll have to test it yourself against actual people if you think it's viable to be integrated to your moveset.

[Hamstah_Fwend]

Reapproached my melee loadout by simplifying my thought process even further: Pilebunker + Basho = fun. 

• The single Zimmer is just there to stagger for bunking those piles. 
  
• Dual Huxleys so that I'm pressing less buttons while chasing.
  
• I do wanna know if there are better shoulder weapons for loadouts that stay in hard lock (to enable spamming kicks).  
  
• Bunker on the arm so I don't struggle switching to it on a stagger.
  
• Any better core/generator combinations for spamming kicks?
  

Probably not an optimal strat, but it's definitely fun.

...

Yeah I'm honestly undecided between Buerzel and Alula. I'll need to figure out for myself with more playtesting if I'd rather have more QB's, or faster AB. Kikaku was one of the first boosters I tried for melee builds, but it really gets outclassed by Buerzel and Alula.

[Hamstah_Fwend]

Now we're cooking. I've been doing well with this loadout, it's looking like this is my main:

I do wonder if I can pick a better core/generator to minimize the downtime between AB spam sequences. Main Dish has been great for generator supply and stability though.

[Penguin Deus]

Now we're cooking. I've been doing well with this loadout, it's looking like this is my main:

I do wonder if I can pick a better core/generator to minimize the downtime between AB spam sequences. Main Dish has been great for generator supply and stability though.

I love it!  The paint job rules, too.

MAIN DISH is BEST DISH.

[Hamstah_Fwend]

I love it!  The paint job rules, too.

MAIN DISH is BEST DISH.

I can't take full credit -- I asked for "professional" advice from minis wargaming friends, they told me to try bone white with the rust weathering. Turned out great!

My WIP on the build continues. Huxley is back because I find that I'm rarely punching, and I've been changing the core + gen around to minimize the downtime between assault boost sequences.

Build works well for me so far. No real combo or trick to it, just constant aggression.