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+--- Thread: Erap (/showthread.php?tid=1025)
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- Grim - 09-12-2007
We talk about multinational corporations, things that waste our time (but are funny nevertheless), and a game which is currently not feasible technically. What about our country?
If you haven't heard from the news yet, Erap got 40 years for plunder. He's acquitted on the charge of perjury though, and so is his son, Jinggoy. I ask you then, what do you think of these turn of events?
Did he deserve what he got?
Personally, I think he did. The facts of the case were clear even way back during the impeachment trial. So even though it's almost six years late, at least this has some measure of legal closure. As for the social effect... well, that remains to be seen.
- NiX - 09-12-2007
I think it's a step in the right direction to actually punish these big-namers. Now if only they could convict all the other thieves in office. Hahahah I don't think they'll have enough space in our prisons for all of them.
- Sforza - 09-12-2007
I voted for "yes, all 40 years of it".
...And now we wait for GMA to be convicted for plunder in a few years. The live news coverage was actually funny because of questions like these:
Reporters (to defense lawyers):
Did Erap's family members cry after the verdict was read? Did Erap cry?
Do you agree with the court's ruling on the case?
How legal were the laws used to convict Erap?
Reporters (to Pro-Erap group leader):
What do you think of the verdict?
So, will you now perform illegal rallies in defiance of your agreement with the government?
- Lord_Leperman - 09-12-2007
I can't be certain for sure. For one, I believe that even if he did take part of the plunder, he has to have associates who are currently out of the issue spectrum, who I believe are the bigger fish in this game. Erap might have something to do with the issue, though I think he is a mere pawn in a grander scheme of things and he's being used as a scapegoat by others who were involved in the issue. As much as I am all for further investigation into the case, a swift resolution to the entire issue is long overdue. So, did he deserve his sentence? I think its an injustice that people didn't fully review his case and the circumstances he was involved in during his presidency and during his alleged "plunder years" so I'd think he'd deserve less.
From a courtroom perspective though, if the case was reviewed thoroughly and objectively, then Erap deserves every moment of the sentence passed.
On the other hand, I think this is a conspiracy on the part of the current administration to promote political stability. For one, the current administration can easily grant a presidential pardon to appease supporters of the former president, in a move that could ultimately bring both the administration and supporters of the former president in good terms with each other.
Second, it is an image boost to foreign investors as convicting a big-time, big-name player shows that the justice system reaches out to the lowest and highest levels of society. With the conviction of a ex-movie actor, big-time politician, and ex-president shows investors that no-one is out of reach from the law (the consistency of the justice system's performance has yet to be proven effective however).
One thing I can assure you of (Or at least, have a good amount of confidence that would happen), foreign exchange rates and our stock market would rise higher than levels recorded prior to the announcement of Erap's plunder case. This little charade gives at least some confidence to investors that the justice system "works". Though the consequences of such actions if were indeed deliberate on the part of the administration, are questionable. Also, GMA might consider giving a presidential pardon to the convicted ex-president for reasons I stated earlier, however I would refrain from doing so if it was up to me, as it may encourage further cases of "plunder", and history might repeat itself over time.
- Grim - 09-12-2007
Your degree shows in your post, sir.
<!--QuoteBegin-Lord_Leperman+--><div class='codebox_title'>QUOTE (Lord_Leperman)</div><div class='codebox'><div id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Erap might have something to do with the issue, though I think he is a mere pawn in a grander scheme of things and he's being used as a scapegoat by others who were involved in the issue.[/quote:c0322254f0]
Very possible. It's quite sad though that it really just had to be a freaking president of a country to be somebody else's fall guy. It's even worse that it had to be our president and our country's name smeared. With all the internal problems we inherited from after the Marcos dictatorship, the Asian financial crisis and all the impromptu rallies and strikes, a president tried for plunder was the last thing we needed.
On second thought, an ex-actor and high school drop-out was the last person we needed as our president.
Quote:On the other hand, I think this is a conspiracy on the part of the current administration to promote political stability.Ploy of the government or not, we need all the positivity we can get anyways. I do agree with your sentiments for a much more permanent solution to corruption though, but that would entail getting to the very core of what drives people to something like that. And optimist as I am, I don't think it will happen within our lifetimes.
I have to say though, medyo naawa ako sa kanya, sobrang iilan lang sa dati niyang cronies ang dumalaw sa kanya while he was under house arrest. The rest went into hiding or just simply refused to be associated with him after his fall.
- clonezero - 09-12-2007
my teacher talked about this a while ago and yes he said erap had it coming but for some other reasons anyway his bet ... Erap would get pardonned by the end of gloria's terms ... I don't have time to type his whole opinion on the subject but he had a good argument ...
- Sforza - 09-12-2007
<!--QuoteBegin-Lord_Leperman+September 12, 2007 01:42 pm--><div class='codebox_title'>QUOTE (Lord_Leperman @ September 12, 2007 01:42 pm)</div><div class='codebox'><div id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I can't be certain for sure. For one, I believe that even if he did take part of the plunder, he has to have associates who are currently out of the issue spectrum, who I believe are the bigger fish in this game. Erap might have something to do with the issue, though I think he is a mere pawn in a grander scheme of things and he's being used as a scapegoat by others who were involved in the issue. As much as I am all for further investigation into the case, a swift resolution to the entire issue is long overdue. So, did he deserve his sentence? I think its an injustice that people didn't fully review his case and the circumstances he was involved in during his presidency and during his alleged "plunder years" so I'd think he'd deserve less.
From a courtroom perspective though, if the case was reviewed thoroughly and objectively, then Erap deserves every moment of the sentence passed.
On the other hand, I think this is a conspiracy on the part of the current administration to promote political stability. For one, the current administration can easily grant a presidential pardon to appease supporters of the former president, in a move that could ultimately bring both the administration and supporters of the former president in good terms with each other.
Second, it is an image boost to foreign investors as convicting a big-time, big-name player shows that the justice system reaches out to the lowest and highest levels of society. With the conviction of a ex-movie actor, big-time politician, and ex-president shows investors that no-one is out of reach from the law (the consistency of the justice system's performance has yet to be proven effective however).
One thing I can assure you of (Or at least, have a good amount of confidence that would happen), foreign exchange rates and our stock market would rise higher than levels recorded prior to the announcement of Erap's plunder case. This little charade gives at least some confidence to investors that the justice system "works". Though the consequences of such actions if were indeed deliberate on the part of the administration, are questionable. Also, GMA might consider giving a presidential pardon to the convicted ex-president for reasons I stated earlier, however I would refrain from doing so if it was up to me, as it may encourage further cases of "plunder", and history might repeat itself over time. [/quote:b497c244e0]
tl;dr~
omfg all that?! it's only about politics! what course did you take in college?
My dear sir, off with their heads, I say! Then, we shall have peace everlasting.
- Serene - 09-12-2007
<!--QuoteBegin-NiX+September 12, 2007 01:48 pm--><div class='codebox_title'>QUOTE (NiX @ September 12, 2007 01:48 pm)</div><div class='codebox'><div id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I think it's a step in the right direction to actually punish these big-namers. Now if only they could convict all the other thieves in office. Hahahah I don't think they'll have enough space in our prisons for all of them. [/quote:d76af7ee22]
Time for a little of my small talk...
They don't have enough room for the small fry, guess what happens if they send the big ones in too...
- J.E_Magog - 09-12-2007
Bat si erap lang? madaming mga politiko dyan na dapat makulong. Puro kasi matatanda ang nagpapatakbo sa bansa natin.
- Goat - 09-12-2007
Quote: Bat si erap lang? madaming mga politiko dyan na dapat makulong. Puro kasi matatanda ang nagpapatakbo sa bansa natin.
Baka naman halos puro artista at mga nagpapagulo nagpapatakbo sa mga bansa. Binoboto ng mga masa hindi naman nila alam kung marunong ba talaga yung binoboto nila o hinde. Binoboto lang dahil sikat. Lol.
At majority ng bansa natin... ay masa.
- clonezero - 09-13-2007
<!--QuoteBegin-J.E_Magog+September 12, 2007 09:26 pm--><div class='codebox_title'>QUOTE (J.E_Magog @ September 12, 2007 09:26 pm)</div><div class='codebox'><div id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bat si erap lang? madaming mga politiko dyan na dapat makulong. Puro kasi matatanda ang nagpapatakbo sa bansa natin. [/quote:c0bb4cdf8d]
also quoting my prof ... kasi si erap lang ung inutil sa mga politiko gumagawa na nga ng mali di pa maruning mag tago ...
- Serene - 09-13-2007
<!--QuoteBegin-clonezero+September 13, 2007 09:48 am--><div class='codebox_title'>QUOTE (clonezero @ September 13, 2007 09:48 am)</div><div class='codebox'><div id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> <!--QuoteBegin-J.E_Magog+September 12, 2007 09:26 pm--><div class='codebox_title'>QUOTE (J.E_Magog @ September 12, 2007 09:26 pm)</div><div class='codebox'><div id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> Bat si erap lang? madaming mga politiko dyan na dapat makulong. Puro kasi matatanda ang nagpapatakbo sa bansa natin. [/quote:2fbb6db706]
also quoting my prof ... kasi si erap lang ung inutil sa mga politiko gumagawa na nga ng mali di pa maruning mag tago ... [/quote:2fbb6db706]
Kuphu naman nun...
Anyways.
I can say that Filipinos are slowly learning...
Why's that?
Some artistas who ran for government positions didn't win. Specially the newbs.
Those who managed to stay were those who actually do something and have very good reputations, like Isko Moreno, Herbert Bautista and Vilma Santos.
Quite interesting actually...
It feels like maraming psychology case studies dito sa 'Pinas.- clonezero - 09-14-2007
now on too somethign related
anyone have comments on the ZTE broadband deal ...
*waiting for the sparks to fly* *whistles*
... aw nothing happened oh well..
RE: Erap - NiX - 10-26-2007
What do you guys think about ERAP's pardon?
It's pretty disgusting, in my opinion. In my eyes, this looks like an attempt of GMA to look good and forgiving or whatever. It could also be a move to reduce the number of her political enemies.
I wonder what kind of deals went on for this pardon to go through... it's stinks really bad.
RE: Erap - Sforza - 10-26-2007
Since I can't hand out mandatory death sentences to almost every administration member in the country, I'll just post what I think:
It's a slap in the face of every single Filipino, because it goes against the constitution and all semblance of equality under the law. First, there's a clause that says impeached presidents cannot be pardoned. It doesn't really matter if he got impeached on paper or not, because it's the principle I'm arguing for, and not the letter of the law.
Second, he was convicted for stealing $80 million. How many people are rotting in jails because they may or may not have stole a few thousand (or even hundred) pesos? Sometimes suspects have to wait for years in jail before their trial even starts. We might as well bow down to all our presidents and call them gods. That's definitely what GMA thinks she is.
In case anyone's still wondering why Erap got pardoned, the main reasons are blindingly obvious. First is that GMA wants to get Erap supporters to her side because of all the scandals her administration is facing, and second is that she wants to set a precedent so that she will be pardoned as well if ever she gets convicted for plunder in the future.
Aside from once again showing the world that criminals can get away with murder if they have the right connections, it showed the moral bankruptcy of the current government. There are NO such things as laws in the Philippines! There are only suggestions.
