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+---- Thread: LR: Modifying ACLR (/showthread.php?tid=2357)
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - adiyel - 11-13-2010
(11-12-2010, 07:37 PM)atdsutm Wrote: question: do different weapons have unique stat breaking rating just like how those parts have hidden stats. or they are just determined via total damage?
it would also be fine is most rifles have similar stats and only different in their weights this might be also applied to other weapons such as MGs, laser/dual laser rifles, shotguns, hand GLs etc......., but i dont know how will you make niche weapons such as echidnas, yasha, chimera, lupus (WArms) and other unique weapon viable.
No they don't. Remember what I said about hit boxes? Well, weapons with large hit detection usually also have high damage (GL, laser cannon), so they hit different part zones easily.
As far as the second statement/question goes, most rifles are similar in most cases except for weight and ranged performance (AST does better up close - well, they're supposed to - but their rof doesn't help them at rifle ranges since they have more spray).
As for niche weapons, I can improve ECHIDNA tracking. I can drop CHIMERA's weight, drain, and boost its velocity. I can do something really strange with LUPUS: I can make it fire homing laser beams like the final Pulverizer. What if I created a single back version or an inside part version of the YASYA? And what if YASYA type orbits tracked their shots?
I can do all of these things...
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - Fox - 11-13-2010
Can you also modify the machine guns so that their bullets don't spread too much, by narrowing their shot groupings?
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - atdsutm - 11-13-2010
are there already changes that are set to stone? or are we still discussing what to change?
about MGs, most common MGs hit targets at 200 ranges, but when moving almost everything misses, i think a velocity increase will actually suffice, shotguns have better velocities but their problem is spread or damage (shot spread too much to deal damage) you really have to be closer to deal a decent amount of damage that is comparable to rifles mgs at farther ranges (they need to spread thin or deal bazooka levels of damage up close).
as for MGs we could classify them into 2 groups
highdamagelowammo and normals
high damage burst (assuming they are all very accurate hitters at 150-200 range with similar spread and velocity)
-pixie (least spread and highest velocity)
-WR69M (least spread & high damage)
-WH79M2 (Higher damage than 69M for more weight)
-Finger (hanger burst type with less ammo and weight, imagine hangared NIX)
-NIX (High burst damage a bit less accurate 150 range only but deals better burst damage than 79M2)
-SILKY (energy weapon, and doesnt eat energy as much as shade so therefor lesser usage drain)
-WL74M (left version of 69m)
-FAIRY (Left version of pixie)
-Sylph (Hangar version of Pixie)
normal (less burst damage capability, less accurate than above, no major nerf/changes needed, but high ammo)
-PIXIE2 (same velocity,spread, range etc as pixie3)
-Pixie3 (ammo to 700-600) (basis for all MGs)
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - J.E_Magog - 11-13-2010
I'd rather see a demo.
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - atdsutm - 11-13-2010
and is it possible to add some hidden stats to be viewable on the assembly menu
part breaking stats. projectile velocity, core mg response/angle, EO recharge/amount gained.
in cases like core mg response/angle and EO recharge/gain you could place them in one line just like how shell and energy def is placed on the menu in one line.
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - adiyel - 11-13-2010
To answer a few questions, feel free to discuss any changes you want to see. As for MG's, I already figured out how to reduce the spread and remove that lefty MG de-buff (where it spreads more than its right counterpart). Also, SYLPH has the highest velocity of MG's, then NIX and 69M. Also, NIX has the tightest potential spread, but its rate of fire destroys its accuracy (especially at ranges). I already have a balanced MG set in the making and you'll get to see it soon.
Shotguns do need a velocity boost, but also the all need the bullet gfx that shoots 8 buckshots instead of the 6 that most SG's have; a WS window would help too. Also, the two ammo clip thing messes them up, as they were pretty sweet in SLAC if I must say so...
In order to show hidden stats, I'd have to mess with the SLUS file and do a bunch of ASM, and find a way to express all those hidden stats and I really don't know how to go about doing that... For instance, aim accuracy is a 16 bit expression that I can't make heads or tails of! Tracking, velocity, range, and bullet spray are all like this. So yeah, that's a no go...
@ J.E. Magog
I'll try to get a prelim video up within a week or two (though I won't be able to vouch for the quality...)
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - Serene - 11-15-2010
Increase Machinegun clip cap to 30?
(11-11-2010, 12:54 PM)adiyel Wrote: I have this thing about having my own lingo for everthing. Whatever anti alias is, I can probably do it...
Also, the are part break values; the higher the number, the easier the break. I could make it so that hovers don't break at all...
Lastly, 90-95 percent of anything you can think of stat/performance related I can change.
Sweet, It would be nice to have long fights for a change. It has nothing to do with me not lasting long in tourneys.
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - atdsutm - 11-15-2010
(11-15-2010, 03:19 AM)Serene Wrote: Increase Machinegun clip cap to 30?
(11-11-2010, 12:54 PM)adiyel Wrote: I have this thing about having my own lingo for everthing. Whatever anti alias is, I can probably do it...
Also, the are part break values; the higher the number, the easier the break. I could make it so that hovers don't break at all...
Lastly, 90-95 percent of anything you can think of stat/performance related I can change.
Sweet, It would be nice to have long fights for a change. It has nothing to do with me not lasting long in tourneys.
increase clip for pxie and 69m to 40 or higher.
dont worry about tourney's this will spark interest back to LR and we might see new weapon/setup combinations.
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - NiX - 11-15-2010
I suggest that balance changes be discussed in the LR balance thread.
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - atdsutm - 11-17-2010
that thread is dead
@adiyel
is there also a lock time stats for weapons?
missile lock on time stat for missiles?
missile projectile speed?
stun/shock stat for each weapons?
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - adiyel - 11-30-2010
@atdsutm
yes, yes, yes, and yes. eventually i'll get them up. MG's don't need a 40 round clip, they just need to be more accurate (which i intend on doing).
btw, sorry for the delay. i had almost given up trying to hack this due to a noob error i made in creating my backup copy
but barring any built-in anti-hack scripts in LR (like the ones in valkyrie profile 2), ill have a brief demo on some changes to my custom AC KARASU NII in less than a week. after that, i intend on going forward with my full hack. i'll be sure to read the changes to ACLR thread for good ideas, not that i really need any... (cuz 1+ heads are better than one...usually)
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - LCC - 11-30-2010
Goddamn VP2, always getting in everyone's way! Game had good music tho. Moreso VP1.
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - atdsutm - 11-30-2010
(11-30-2010, 08:57 AM)adiyel Wrote: , ill have a brief demo on some changes to my custom AC KARASU NII in less than a week. after that, i intend on going forward with my full hack. i'll be sure to read the changes to ACLR thread for good ideas, not that i really need any... (cuz 1+ heads are better than one...usually)
how long usually does it take to complete the full hack?
a couple of years?
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - adiyel - 12-02-2010
A few years?! Shoots no, if I devoted full time to it, it could be done in a few weeks. I basically plan on balancing weapons, but moreso I plan on bolstering the strengths of weapon niches like strengthening SG and MG close-quarters dominance, improve SR's ability to fight at long range without making them dominate mid range, etc., so that player are rewarded not only for designing balanced AC's, but also for specializing them.
---
Now let's discuss how FROM failed at that, while also discussing velocity (w00t). First let me briefly explain hexadecimal over decimal.
Dec: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20
Hex: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. 8. 9. A. B. C. D. E. F. 10. 11. 12. 13. 14
Alright, so 69R, 73R2 and 05R3 have a velocity of 41 24 00 00. but RA/RA2 have a higher velocity of 41 28 00 00, and HITEN even higher at 41 2C CC CD! R2 has an attack per interval (1/60 of a second) of 10.0000 (280 over 1+27) while R3 has one of 10.7692, RA2 has a pathetic dps of 8.17567. And don't get me started on HITEN's crap dps...
This makes AST more accurate at longer ranges and normals better at damage racing, and I could swear that dps was what close quarters was all about... Also, AST are usually lighter than battle rifles. So yeah, FROM basically reversed the qualities of battle rifles and AST rifles. The only thing they got right was range and bullet caliber (power)...
I'll explain how to calc DPS:
(Attack*mag capacity) / (firing int*mag cap-1, + mag cap + mag reload)
the last round initiates mag reload, not firing interval, and you must account 1 interval for each shot fired. So RA2 would look like this:
(242*10) / (19*9 +10 + 115) use scientific
Now the ammo clip system makes AST a better choice when you are in and out, since the mag reload is usually satisfied while you plan your next raid. I want to make them more specific, so here's what I plan to do:
-Giving all rifles a velocity between 41 28 00 00 and 41 2C CC CD, since they screwed Mirage rifles in the velocity dept.
-giving AST velocities between 41 24 00 00 and 41 28 00 00
-lengthening lock time for normal rifles, similar to the DRAGON, fast enough to not require a specific FCS, but slow enough to have its effectiveness and DPS somewhat diminished in CQ
-giving all AST standard windows
As for snipers, did you know that RS has a faster lock time than any normal or AST rifle? Cheesy, I know. I plan to do a number of things, like lengthen sniper lock times, tweak FCS like KOKUH, MONJU and VOLUTE to better handle using mixed weaponry, and completely redo ND FCS so that maining NDs or being pure sniper can pay off bigtime IF you use a ND FCS. Btw, I can't stand everyone using pistols in the left...
RE: ACLR's hidden stats - atdsutm - 12-02-2010
sorry for the miscalculating "years" i thought your were in the process of cracking lol.
so basically youre going to make AST less accurate but deal faster damage? but how about AST outside of rifles? (RLA, Lamia3, linear cannon AST etc.)
but how would you compare the new lock on time of new "standard" rifles and sniper rifles to RL/RLA
would it be fastest to slowest (AST, standard rifle, RL,RLA, sniper rifle respectively?)
i was also about to suggest this in the balance thread of making basic rifles more accurate but weaker DPS, while AST deal faster dps but less accuracy and probably range, while burst rifles even deal faster damages.
speaking of burst, what are your plans on burst rifles?
im also updating my first post in the balance thread, although my suggestions are somewhat experimental since rather making all of the parts similar and balance, im trying to make some parts different or justified in a different way (ironically FROM thinks like this but fails) feel free to look at it.
but TBH we also need inputs from NiX,Grim ,JE and Lord_Lepermen.