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+--- Thread: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources (/showthread.php?tid=3569)
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Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - pompadude - 12-21-2022
With the hype for ACVI I wanted to get back to something I wanted to do some years ago and compile resources on playing 3rd Gen PVP for preservation/accessibility.
Over the years we've lost a lot of other AC forums & fansites that held a lot of information that is now gone and not publicly archived at least. I remember there being old long dicussion threads on viable parts/weapons and why, maximizing defensive values and optimizing tunes in LR, etc that are now gone. I've spent the past week or so searching around and the Republic is one of the last few places with threads of information about it, even going so far as dig through wayback machine links and other sources.
The original goal geared towards LR was to have important resources for playing and understanding the metagame archived in an easily accessible format similar to a fighting game wiki.
Fundamental knowledge on the meta, techniques and how to perform them (Overboost movement techniques, playstyle techniques like jousting, etc), video resources that explain and show techniques or pvp focused gameplay, building guides that at the very least go over the meta parts and why you would use one or the other.
I managed to wayback machine find a full ver of Mechadon's Jousting guide for LR specifically and gave it a few read-overs and information like that would be even better reupdating them and giving video resources to accompany and explain the information it tries to go over as an example.
Any information like this getting resurfaced or even resparking discussion with these topics in mind would be great!
Even if it doesn't bring in people trying out AC to explore 3rd Gen PVP for themselves I think it is very unique and worth preserving information for playing it and would like to help.
I've considered making some videos on my own but the gaps in my own experience and knowledge are too wide currently.
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - Lord_Leperman - 12-21-2022
Welcome to our forums popmpadude, you came to the right place to ask. As you prolly know, Raven Republic has been most active during the late 3rd gen era, specifically in AC:LR, and in some cases in 5th gen era. I also go way back to 2002, right at the time AC3 was released, and started lurking at various AC forums. So, besides guides (which I don't really have) I can at least provide anecdotes on what was considered the best of the best at that time.
The other thing I have are video resources of past tournaments both in the US, Japan, and here in the Philippines (at least for AC:LR). From there you can watch and see how things played out in a tourney setting back then, and I can explain the logic and reasoning for what parts were used and why.
I also remember which parts were OP and banned from different tourneys.
Anyway, Nix's Youtube Channel has good videos of LR tourneys here. I have some, poorly captured vids of the early tourney scene here, but hey, at least I got some of Master of California's tourney videos in there as well.
Anyway, just ask what you want to know and I'll recall as much as I can.
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - pompadude - 12-21-2022
Thank you!! I'll be busy this coming week with holiday stuff but after that I'll start looking through those match videos and see what stand out stuff I can ask about!
As far as banned parts go I had a list saved for reference and it looked like this;
CR-C8UA + Hangers (core + hangers)
A09-LEMUR2 (arms)
YA10-LORIS (arms)
CR-B83TP (booster)
Complete ECM Type (inside)
E01MG-ROE (extension)
E05MG-ROE2 (extension)
WB270-HARPY2 (back unit)
WB31B-PEGASUS (back unit)
CR-WH79H3 (arm unit)
WR12PU-ROC2 (hangers)
YWH14PU-ROC4 (hangers)
CR-WH01HP (Hangers)
Not sure how old this list was when I saved it though
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - Lord_Leperman - 12-21-2022
I remember that ban list as far back as mid to late 2006.
These are the rules and ban lists of our own PACT, along with an extensive discussion about it. (This thread takes me back)
Our part ban list was initially based on discussions and consensus in multiple English speaking AC forums from back in 2006 and along with our own testing as well. Although, I'd say we were a bit more lenient by not outright banning certain parts, and instead making them conditional bans.
To sum it up, the banlist was supposed to encourage lesser used design styles (bladers, single weapon wielders, etc) by allowing banned parts on lesser used fighting styles. It was supposed to up the performance of blader designs, to put them somewhat on-par with dual gun wielding designs, to encourage build diversity in succeeding tournaments.
I wasn't familiar on the rules in JP tournaments sadly.
In a nutshell:
CR-C8UA + Hangers (core + hangers) - Core was already really good.
A09-LEMUR2 (arms) - Too much defense and AP for the weight and EN drain it had
YA10-LORIS (arms) - Too much defense for the weight and drain.
CR-B83TP (booster) - Best top speed and acceleration in the game. Possible to dodge everything.
Complete ECM Type (inside) - Too game breaking, forcing all other designs to counter build around it.
E01MG-ROE (extension) - Banned because of the 98L Laser Rifle
E05MG-ROE2 (extension) - Banned because of the 98L Laser Rifle
WB270-HARPY2 (back unit) - Can single handedly destroy any tank legs build
WB31B-PEGASUS (back unit) - Same reason as the B83TP
CR-WH79H3 (arm unit) - Pocket rifle that can easily genbust designs
WR12PU-ROC2 (hangers) - Pocket energy rifle
YWH14PU-ROC4 (hangers) - Has killpower the size of a full weapon, in pocket form
CR-WH01HP (Hangers) - Pocket rifle with amazing DPS
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - ZaruForever - 12-21-2022
I know that folks here used to play online by using xlink kai with PS2, but I wonder if anyone is experienced with setting up multiplayer over emulated versions of ps2/psp versions, I think people use Radmin or Zerotier to connect?
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - pompadude - 12-21-2022
(12-21-2022, 04:44 PM)ZaruForever Wrote: I know that folks here used to play online by using xlink kai with PS2, but I wonder if anyone is experienced with setting up multiplayer over emulated versions of ps2/psp versions, I think people use Radmin or Zerotier to connect?
Yeah the nightly build of PCSX2 with radmin is what's currently used for NB/LR netplay as far as I know
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - ZaruForever - 12-21-2022
I haven't updated my pcsx2 for ages so I still play LR in software mode
Well it allows me to enjoy shadows in garage as well.Is there a write-up on connectivity details with both pcsx2 and ppsspp with radmin?
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - Grim - 12-21-2022
(12-21-2022, 07:46 PM)ZaruForever Wrote: Is there a write-up on connectivity details with both pcsx2 and ppsspp with radmin?
I don't believe there is one; please feel free to start writing it.
The only thing I can think of is the XLink Kai setup process I was able to save before.
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - pompadude - 01-02-2023
I'm back from Holiday obligations so i'm going to go through the PACT footage soon and make an outline of what info I want to flesh out! Hope everyone had a good holiday and happy new year!
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - NiX - 01-04-2023
(12-21-2022, 04:44 PM)ZaruForever Wrote: I know that folks here used to play online by using xlink kai with PS2, but I wonder if anyone is experienced with setting up multiplayer over emulated versions of ps2/psp versions, I think people use Radmin or Zerotier to connect?
I wrote a guide for online play using PPSSPP. I'm hoping everything here is still applicable:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NlpjBnkSsS2QBcW8VzFQaPeH2DKhUZoDs2hs1Kqt1b4/edit?usp=sharing
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - TMRaven - 01-05-2023
I'll leave this here: https://imgur.com/pWdpQjZ
There's a whole bunch of other stuff on ACU that is lost for now, as Niji has not yet brought the forum back online. I'll answer any questions for Last Raven though.
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - pompadude - 01-07-2023
I'm less familiar with the psp port of LR but I think people moved to using the PCSX2 netplay build eventually because the psp ver changed lockbox sizes to accommodate the psp screen from what I saw, not sure how big a difference it actually is.
I also had a saved imgur link of a weapon tier list a year later that i'm not sure is more accurate or just different if you wanted to take a glance https://imgur.com/IBZUKHO
Okay so I spent a bit of time outlining what I think I'd like to flesh out with information. So far I've broken it down into this Outline for resources that could be expanded on
- General builds for different playstyles, give newer players something to ease into while learning and giving a base to tinker with for building (maybe one for each leg type, melee, joust, etc?)
- List of Meta Parts/Weapons and descriptions of why they’re strong, all parts are not created equal and possibly also a list of parts to avoid with reasoning would be good too. I understand this could get complicated because a lot of parts shine in specific combinations.
- Explanations on option parts, what’s useful and why
-There was a tuning guide on ACU that went over optimizing your defensive values via tunes that is lost. A full tuning guide in general would be good.
-Gameplay techniques and either explanations on the inputs used to perform said techniques or videos showing them being performed, ideally both. (general movement with different leg types, Overboost techniques, etc)
I had these links saved for movement stuff, I'm not sure what could be added to the old AC3 movement guide, would be nice to consolidate regular movement + overboost into a single video with input explanations.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqqF6xHpn0Q&ab_channel=Sparking_AC
https://youtu.be/QwgxU1y1W-Q
-We have good info on Radiators+Generators & FCS, Damage Calculations
-If anyone has any experience or input on the viability of the 2v2 format i’m curious about this as well
I'm still looking through the PACT 6 matches but do we have any good footage of jousting gameplay to breakdown in LR?
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - TMRaven - 01-07-2023
Oh yeah that is the more recent version of my hand weapon tier list.
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - NiX - 01-08-2023
(01-07-2023, 06:56 AM)pompadude Wrote: -If anyone has any experience or input on the viability of the 2v2 format i’m curious about this as well
I'm still looking through the PACT 6 matches but do we have any good footage of jousting gameplay to breakdown in LR?
You can check the PACT 5 playlist on my channel for 2v2 vids. It sorta boils down to focus-firing someone down. Rules that disallow dual-wielding might make it more tactical.
For jousting and OB-related stuff, there's vids on youtube of/by Booyaka, Penguin Deus, TMRaven, LCC, etc that are good.
RE: Reviving 3rd Gen PVP Resources - ZaruForever - 01-09-2023
(01-04-2023, 10:35 PM)NiX Wrote: I wrote a guide for online play using PPSSPP. I'm hoping everything here is still applicable:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NlpjBnkSsS2QBcW8VzFQaPeH2DKhUZoDs2hs1Kqt1b4/edit?usp=sharing
Thanks, seems nice!
Perhaps later you could redo it into a forum thread here
